Has anyone measured alarm battery drain?
Discussion
Hi, I am about to get a chunky solar panel (20 or 40W) and pulse width modulated charge controller to keep my Chimaera's battery charged when it is used less over the winter. My garage doesn't have any mains power. I know there are lots of threads on this but I haven't been able to find one where anyone has measured the battery drain 1. with the alarm on and 2. with it off. Knowing the answers could save me a few quid because the price of a panel depends on its wattage. Anyone know the answers?
I am in the same position and have fitted a very similar set-up which proved to be a complete disaster. For some reason the solar set up seems to take power from the battery to do its diagnostics and if there is insufficient photvoltaic energy you end up taking more out than you put in and the battery goes flat even faster than if the car is just left to its own devices. The alarm takes very little power -- my garage found it difficult to identify any drain -- bue we know it is there. My solution is simply to run the car up every three weeks or so-- give it a decent run and make sure the battery is fully charged vbefore putting it to bed. Another solution was to fit a simple battery cut-off which of course means the alarm ceases to function whcih has insurance implications. It is just possible that I have solar panels that have lost their enthusiasm for life but a check with the multimeter showed they were still producing useful current when the sun shines...so I think the problem lies with the clever regulator.
On a similar note regarding my griff 500 . . .
It lives in an underground car park, so no garage to keep a permanently connected conditioner. I found the car completely flat for the first time the other day so managed to trail an extension lead and connect my ctek conditioner via the croc clips of the Anderson connector lead. Not an ideal connection which might explain whys he ctek's case got warmer than normal!
Charged it for an hour, which allowed me to start her up and take her for a spin.
My question being how long a drive and what kind of route should charge the battery fully, assuming car's electrics and battery are all fine? An off the top of my head guess would be a good couple of hours drive?
Oh forgot to mention that there is a box of trickery (installed by Fernhurst methinks) in the glovebox which constantly displays the battery voltage. I doubt it draws much current but thought it worth mentioning.
It lives in an underground car park, so no garage to keep a permanently connected conditioner. I found the car completely flat for the first time the other day so managed to trail an extension lead and connect my ctek conditioner via the croc clips of the Anderson connector lead. Not an ideal connection which might explain whys he ctek's case got warmer than normal!
Charged it for an hour, which allowed me to start her up and take her for a spin.
My question being how long a drive and what kind of route should charge the battery fully, assuming car's electrics and battery are all fine? An off the top of my head guess would be a good couple of hours drive?
Oh forgot to mention that there is a box of trickery (installed by Fernhurst methinks) in the glovebox which constantly displays the battery voltage. I doubt it draws much current but thought it worth mentioning.
Edited by Digger on Monday 14th October 10:48
Clearly the best solution to this common problem is to track down the parasitic drain & eliminate it, however this can be costly & time consuming.
At the end of the day it will most likely result in you paying to have a more up-to-date alarm system fitted, to do this properly is likely to cost upwards of £600.00.
But there is a cheaper solution, consider this...
A healthy disconnected battery will hold sufficient charge to start your TVR after 6 months or more of inactivity.
But how to conveniently disconnect the battery after you've locked the car?
That's easy, "Battery Brain" is your answer.
Simple to fit the Battery Brain device can be activated from outside the car after you have used the TVR remote to deadlock the doors.
Just lock the car as normal, allow 30 seconds for the alarm to stabilise (Alarm LED goes from a fast flash to a slow blink) then press the Battery Brain remote fob once.
The alarm LED will extinguish, the car remains locked yet you've fully disconnected your battery (so no drain).
Ok so the alarm is not going to function if someone breaks in, but equally a theif can't start and drive off in the car with its battery disconnected.
If by some miracle the thief finds the Battery Brain & manually reconnects it (highly unlikely), all he's going to do is activate the alarm & immobiliser so he'll then need to get past that just as if he was attempting to steal any other Chimaera.
The only downside I can see is the alarm wont go off if a window is smashed or a door levered open, but lets be honest here who gives the blindest bit of notice to a wailing car alarm these days?
So I actually see the Battery Brain as a second line of defense, making the car harder to steal than if it wasn't fitted.
The benefit of the Battery Brain is you can return to your TVR literally months later, press the Battery Brain remote fob once to reconnect the battery, wait for the three flashes from the indicators to stop, press the TVR fob to unlock the car and drive away like you drove it yesterday.
No mains power & trickle chargers involved, no marginally performing solar chargers required; just one press of the Battery Brain remote and all your battery drain woes have ended.
Combine it with a decent new battery at the time of fitting a Battery Brain and your "No Start" frustrations will seem like a distant bad dream.
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/productspage.php
If you suffer from the TVR battery drain issue & have no access to a mains power supply, a Battery Brain Gold will be the best £60.00 you'll ever spend on your TVR.
And it'll also save you a fortune in regular battery replacements.
I've had mine on my Chimaera for over two years, it's a proven, reliable, yet simple solution & one I can highly recommend
NB: Another benefit of the Battery Brain is fire safety.
It's not unheard of for TVR's to mysteriously set themselves on fire while sat seemingly inactive, on a Griff or Chim it's usually the cigarette lighter socket shorting itself out, on a Tuscan it's most likely a short at the Aderson charger point.
I know of a least one TVR specialist that has a policy of manually disconnecting the battery on every car left in his workshop overnight for this very reason.
With the battery disconnected the car's entire wiring system is disconnected too, so the risk of fire caused by a short is virtually eliminated.
Just another handy feature of the Battery Brain, in fact when considering fire risk I'd feel far happier using the Battery Brain than a trickle charger.
Especially a trickle charger plugged into that very poor quality cigarette lighter socket.
At the end of the day it will most likely result in you paying to have a more up-to-date alarm system fitted, to do this properly is likely to cost upwards of £600.00.
But there is a cheaper solution, consider this...
A healthy disconnected battery will hold sufficient charge to start your TVR after 6 months or more of inactivity.
But how to conveniently disconnect the battery after you've locked the car?
That's easy, "Battery Brain" is your answer.
Simple to fit the Battery Brain device can be activated from outside the car after you have used the TVR remote to deadlock the doors.
Just lock the car as normal, allow 30 seconds for the alarm to stabilise (Alarm LED goes from a fast flash to a slow blink) then press the Battery Brain remote fob once.
The alarm LED will extinguish, the car remains locked yet you've fully disconnected your battery (so no drain).
Ok so the alarm is not going to function if someone breaks in, but equally a theif can't start and drive off in the car with its battery disconnected.
If by some miracle the thief finds the Battery Brain & manually reconnects it (highly unlikely), all he's going to do is activate the alarm & immobiliser so he'll then need to get past that just as if he was attempting to steal any other Chimaera.
The only downside I can see is the alarm wont go off if a window is smashed or a door levered open, but lets be honest here who gives the blindest bit of notice to a wailing car alarm these days?
So I actually see the Battery Brain as a second line of defense, making the car harder to steal than if it wasn't fitted.
The benefit of the Battery Brain is you can return to your TVR literally months later, press the Battery Brain remote fob once to reconnect the battery, wait for the three flashes from the indicators to stop, press the TVR fob to unlock the car and drive away like you drove it yesterday.
No mains power & trickle chargers involved, no marginally performing solar chargers required; just one press of the Battery Brain remote and all your battery drain woes have ended.
Combine it with a decent new battery at the time of fitting a Battery Brain and your "No Start" frustrations will seem like a distant bad dream.
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/productspage.php
If you suffer from the TVR battery drain issue & have no access to a mains power supply, a Battery Brain Gold will be the best £60.00 you'll ever spend on your TVR.
And it'll also save you a fortune in regular battery replacements.
I've had mine on my Chimaera for over two years, it's a proven, reliable, yet simple solution & one I can highly recommend
NB: Another benefit of the Battery Brain is fire safety.
It's not unheard of for TVR's to mysteriously set themselves on fire while sat seemingly inactive, on a Griff or Chim it's usually the cigarette lighter socket shorting itself out, on a Tuscan it's most likely a short at the Aderson charger point.
I know of a least one TVR specialist that has a policy of manually disconnecting the battery on every car left in his workshop overnight for this very reason.
With the battery disconnected the car's entire wiring system is disconnected too, so the risk of fire caused by a short is virtually eliminated.
Just another handy feature of the Battery Brain, in fact when considering fire risk I'd feel far happier using the Battery Brain than a trickle charger.
Especially a trickle charger plugged into that very poor quality cigarette lighter socket.
ChimpOnGas said:
I know of a least one TVR specialist that has a policy of manually disconnecting the battery on every car left in his workshop overnight for this very reason.
Same one as I'm thinking of? 
ChimpOnGas said:
Especially a trickle charger plugged into that very poor quality cigarette lighter socket.
+1 ... even a low current across a bad contact (and believe me the ciggie lighter is an awful contact) generates a sh*tload of heat and I wouldn't want to leave that for weeks on end!I have an electric coolbox that if you leave it running (and it doesn't draw that much) for a day and you pull the lighter plug out of the socket and touch the centre contact then it'll sting like buggery!
Phil
Digger said:
Any ideas about my length of drive to charge the battery query?
Actually your alternator will never fully charge a completely discharged battery.Charging even a partially discharged battery using the alternator (driving the car) is brutal.
If you jump start a car, then drive it to charge the battery dont be surprised if the battery completely gives out on you a few weeks later.
You're much better off putting a decent trickle charger on a discharged battery and bringing it back to life as slowly as possible, you'll also be putting a full charge in it.
However, the best thing you can do is never let it get discharged in the first place, & that means keeping it on a trickle charger of if no mains power is available disconnecting the battery completely using something like a Battery Brain.
Or better still drive your TVR more regularly, it's the most fun solution by far
I'm aware that conditioning the battery is the best option hence I have owned a Ctek 3600XS for many years, but tricky to wire up in an underground car park.
My drive-to-charge on various cars question has intrigued me for many years, yet no-one ever seems to have any kind of answer!
My drive-to-charge on various cars question has intrigued me for many years, yet no-one ever seems to have any kind of answer!
Digger said:
I'm aware that conditioning the battery is the best option hence I have owned a Ctek 3600XS for many years, but tricky to wire up in an underground car park.
That's why you need a Battery Brain, honestly just buy one and start using it as explained above, you'll never have a problem againDigger said:
My drive-to-charge on various cars question has intrigued me for many years, yet no-one ever seems to have any kind of answer!
That's because it's an impossible question to answer, simply put there are too many variables.How discharged is the battery?
What amp hours is your battery?
How many amps is your alternator genuinely putting out?
The only thing you can say for sure is an alternator will never fully charge a discharged battery and using an alternator to charge a discharged battery is very bad for said battery.
But if you really really want an answer, how about 40 minutes at engine speeds consistently over 2,000rpm?
Unless your battery is in poor shape to start with, or it's really cold out, or your alternator isn't performing at its best, or you've got a poor earth, or your 100 amp fuse is fractured, or your auxiliary belt is slipping, or you've got a significant parasitic drain.
See, it's kind of hard to say.
I'd just buy a Battery Brain and use it if I were you, but remember it won't fix a knackered battery so best get that checked out first.
Apologies to the OP for going Off Topic.
Thanks ConG. Seriously looking at a Battery Brain! Will have a word with my insurance company and see what they say though.
I'm certainly not as naive as you are making me out to be, and I'm well aware of all the variables involved. I thought it to be a valid question! Pure intrigue.
I'd actually assumed it might be significantly longer than 40 minutes for the "average", in good condition car.
Will have a rummage in the bible later, as well as diagnose wiper park issue that surfaced for the first time this evening!
Thanks ConG. Seriously looking at a Battery Brain! Will have a word with my insurance company and see what they say though.
I'm certainly not as naive as you are making me out to be, and I'm well aware of all the variables involved. I thought it to be a valid question! Pure intrigue.
I'd actually assumed it might be significantly longer than 40 minutes for the "average", in good condition car.
Will have a rummage in the bible later, as well as diagnose wiper park issue that surfaced for the first time this evening!
Digger said:
Apologies to the OP for going Off Topic.
Thanks ConG. Seriously looking at a Battery Brain! Will have a word with my insurance company and see what they say though.
I'm certainly not as naive as you are making me out to be, and I'm well aware of all the variables involved. I thought it to be a valid question! Pure intrigue.
I'd actually assumed it might be significantly longer than 40 minutes for the "average", in good condition car.
Will have a rummage in the bible later, as well as diagnose wiper park issue that surfaced for the first time this evening!
Good luck with it Digger Thanks ConG. Seriously looking at a Battery Brain! Will have a word with my insurance company and see what they say though.
I'm certainly not as naive as you are making me out to be, and I'm well aware of all the variables involved. I thought it to be a valid question! Pure intrigue.
I'd actually assumed it might be significantly longer than 40 minutes for the "average", in good condition car.
Will have a rummage in the bible later, as well as diagnose wiper park issue that surfaced for the first time this evening!
Nothing worse than a TVR that doesn't start when you've been looking forward to driving it all week.
Another feature the Battery Brain has if you just leave it to do it's thing, is disconnect the battery if the voltage falls below a certain level.
So in addition to the manual disconnect feature for secure long term storage, if you are out and about & leave your lights on by mistake it'll disconnect the battery leaving enough charge to allow a start.
Just press the fob to reconnect the battery and away you go.
Whatever the situation, with a Battery Brain flat batteries become a bad memory.
Bassfiend229hp said:
+1 ... even a low current across a bad contact (and believe me the ciggie lighter is an awful contact) generates a sh*tload of heat and I wouldn't want to leave that for weeks on end!
I have an electric coolbox that if you leave it running (and it doesn't draw that much) for a day and you pull the lighter plug out of the socket and touch the centre contact then it'll sting like buggery!
Phil
You're exaggerating the risk of overheating with a trickle charger.I have an electric coolbox that if you leave it running (and it doesn't draw that much) for a day and you pull the lighter plug out of the socket and touch the centre contact then it'll sting like buggery!
Phil
The heat dissipated by a bad contact is proportional to the resistance (i.e. how bad the contact is), but it's also proportional to the square of the current. What that means is that a slight degradation in the contact will only result in a slight increase in heat, whereas a slight increase in current results in a significant increase in heat.
Your example of an electric coolbox is not at all representative of a trickle charger. A coolbox will be quite a large current draw at 12V, so it's not surprising that it could generate a lot of heat through a poor contact. A trickle charger is a much lower current, and is therefore going to generate hugely less heat because of that square law.
Not surprisingly, every time I remove my trickle charger from the ciggie socket, there's no trace of warmth.
swisstoni said:
Battery Brain looks like a good product. How have you got it installed on the Chimaera, given the space limitations?
Easy, it just clamps to the positive battery terminal, and there's plenty of space for it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NBdtfL5ag0
I recommended ditching the monkey metal clamp that comes in the kit though, its made from very poor material that fractures easily.
Just buy a decent tinned brass positive battery terminal, the type with an M8 stud like this:
They're not expensive, I got mine from here:
http://kojaycat.co.uk/BT461-M8-post-type-positive-...
The Battery Brain is easy to fit, just follow the instructions in the kit & it'll take you about 10 minutes.
After that you can disconnect & reconnect your battery at will from 10 feet away even after the car is deadlocked, the transmitter range of the Battery Brain remote is far superior to the TVR key fob (not hard).
It totally solves the problem of the TVR parasitic battery drain, well actually it masks it but you get what I mean.
On reconnecting your battery you'll find you'll need to reset your clock and radio presets, hardly a big inconvenience and a small price to pay for knowing the car will definitely start even if you haven't used it for months.
When reconnecting my battery using the Battery Brain I have never had an alarm activation once, you just get three flashes from the indicators, after this you can unlock the car as normal & drive away.
No mains power or iffy solar chargers required, no leaving the car unlocked so you can get access to a manual battery disconnect switch on the battery, just a car that starts when you want it to and years of reliable battery performance.
Job done for about £65.00 all in, if you've ever had the disappointment of finding your TVR has a flat battery just when you want to take it out for a blast, try a Battery Brain for a few months then tell me you don't love it
I wouldn't be without mine & far safer than a trickle charger (especially one that been connected to that terrible ciggy socket in the door).
NB: If you do use a trickle charger for heavens sake take 10 minutes to hook it up directly to your battery terminals!
Just get a quick connect fused fly lead to make a proper job of it, & this way it'll be as easy & convenient to connect as using that very poor quality ciggy socket in the door.
Your battery will get a better and more reliable charge and you could end up saving your car (& house if you've got an attached garage) from burning down.
I'm not scaremongering, but in my opinion for the sake of 10 minutes to do the job properly you'd be mad not to hook up your trickle charger directly to the battery.
The only reason you'd use that awful ciggy socket is because your too lazy to do it properly or your afraid of 12v batteries.
If you don't feel confident to fit a trickle charger fly lead directly to your battery, get a mechanic to do it for you.
Regret is a dreadful thing
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 15th October 11:29
Thanks for all the above. I will use a Battery Brain. Slightly, worried the alarm will go off each time the battery is disconnected but from the above, it doesn't look as if that will be a problem. The solar panel with charge controller ought to work and it's a bit of a blow to discover that enough current is drawn from the battery by the charge controller to cause a problem in low light. I may go belt and braces and try to find a solar system that doesn't display that behaviour....it would be good to be able to keep a second battery charged. So far no probs with my Chimaera re: flat battery but this winter will see less use. All the best and thanks. P.
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