RE: Infiniti goes steer by wire
RE: Infiniti goes steer by wire
Monday 14th October 2013

Infiniti goes steer by wire

PH investigates Infiniti's move to be the first with entirely 'digital' steering



While we struggle to come to terms with the increasing prevalence of electric power steering on sports cars – bastions of driver involvement such as Porsche’s 911 GT3 and BMW’s forthcoming M3 have adopted the new technology – Infiniti has gone a giant leap further by removing any mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front tyres altogether on higher-end versions of its Q50 saloon.

It calls the system Direct Adaptive Steering. The initial research phase began some 15 years ago, according to chassis engineer Takeshi Kimura. “DAS replaces the mechanical linkage with an electronic linkage,” he says. “We have a steering rack with two motors, which we call steering angle actuators. There is a steering column with one motor, called the steering force actuator.

Mechanical fail-safe is only link to front wheels
Mechanical fail-safe is only link to front wheels
“When the driver turns the steering wheel, an ECU calculates what angle the front wheels should turn to and the steering angle actuators then turn the wheels. The system replicates steering feel by decreasing resistance as grip levels change. It’s much better than electric power steering.”

The benefits, reckons Kimura, are manifold, but it’s speed of response that is most significant. “On a conventional system the torsional compliance of the steering shaft and of the steering gear mounts means there is a delay between turning the steering wheel and the front wheels actually turning,” he explains. “The DAS system doesn’t have that compliance, so the response is much faster.”

Beyond speed of response, the system also has the same fuel efficiency benefits as ePAS compared to hydraulically-assisted power steering and it can reduce steering input in a similar manner to a rear-wheel steering system. It also filters out unwanted noise and kickback from rough road surfaces, which is reckoned to improve refinement, and additionally it facilitates such functions as lane departure warning.

Although it’s technically possible to engineer an autonomous counter steering – or opposite lock – function alongside DAS, modern electronic stability programmes effectively negate the need. 

As yet there isn’t a weight saving. In fact, there is a weight penalty because a mechanical rack and pinion system, actuated by a clutch, is still fitted as a failsafe. Kimura hopes to be able to eliminate the back-up system in time, however, which would bring significant benefits in terms of packaging and safety; there’d no longer be a large pin pointing as your chest, as he points out. 

The main drawback, however – and it’s one that keen drivers may never accept –is that the steering just feels bizarre. The weighting seems inconsistent and changes mid-corner, and you never really trust that the artificial feedback is accurate or reliable.

The relentless move towards ePAS shows that manufacturers have greater concerns than the tactile preferences of a core group of motoring enthusiasts, so is steer-by-wire a reality that we’ll just have to accept? Infiniti will be charging ahead with it; “We believe DAS is the future,” says Fintan Knight, regional Vice President of Infiniti.

“As engineers we want to use the system on all of our cars. We are discussing the implementation of DAS right now,” confirms Kimura.

“Other manufacturers have looked at steer-by-wire, but they gave up because of the difficulties. After driving our car I think it is possible they will be encouraged to develop their own systems.”

The benefits of DAS are genuine and once the mechanical failsafe can be eliminated they’ll be greater still. As it is now, however, steer-by-wire isn’t close to replicating the tactile pleasure of a good hydraulic setup.


 

Author
Discussion

dirty_dog

Original Poster:

676 posts

206 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
not for me thanks!

Snowboy

8,028 posts

181 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Fine in a brand new car.
Terrifying 5 years later with old wiring, worn motors and a few blown fuses.

Adrian W

15,548 posts

258 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
It's not an ECU, it's a CU!

Bit Scary though

Silverbullet767

11,318 posts

236 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Beat me to it. Not for me either!

What's next, xbox style rumble feature built in?

teabagger

723 posts

227 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
More complexity, more things to go wrong for what?

If you need an ecu to correct your steering or driving to to much of a hassle for you, get the bus.

loudlashadjuster

6,454 posts

214 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Cue inevitable response in 3, 2, 1...


chris182

4,238 posts

183 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Just no I'm afraid. Most electronic systems can fail and the car not end up in a fireball but drive by wire steering is a step too far. I fail to see the need for it either, it seems to be just complexity and dangerous failure modes for no benefit.

RumpleFugly

2,382 posts

240 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Silverbullet767 said:
Beat me to it. Not for me either!

What's next, xbox style rumble feature built in?
You joke but I can see exactly such a system being put in place for sportier models in the same way engine noise is replicated through speakers.

Seems car makers are continuing to refine vehicles then artificially add 'charachter' back in

danielj58

123 posts

204 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Will safety bodies ever allow a complete disconnect though? This seems most peculiar given it's actually a weight penalty too. Seems to be a solution to a problem that has long since been solved.. Steering response too? Are they talking about flex in the actual mechanical components?

Steering feel should improve no end, if simulators can manage it I see no reason why a digital system being fed real data can't. But it still doesn't get around the ultimate question here which is why bother?

Odd, very odd.

Dazed & Confused

209 posts

234 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
It's early days for electrical steering. We're comparing it to a system that has had decades of refinement, and has basically reached a pinnacle. I expect early hydraulic systems weren't great, and would be criticised today if fitted to the latest 911.

Electrical steering is happening, and we have to accept that. However, if we reward manufacturers who put an emphasis on making electrical steering work well, by buying their products instead of just giving up and settling for whatever's out there, then it will improve more quickly.

At least it's not like manual vs paddles - it's not an either/or. We can demand both faster/more economical steering, and, hopefully with a bit of development, still keep the feel.

MikeGoodwin

153 posts

208 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
My 320d Post LCI is horrible. fk knows how bad this would be though.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

277 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
So this means they could ditch the steering wheel and go for a joystick.

That would be cool for 10 minutes or so.

MrScrot

77 posts

192 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
This does't seem like a very safe idea. I'm sure drive by wire may have some uses such as in construction vehicles where placing a steering column may not be efficient and performance is not a priority. Maybe in a car it could be used for some form of rear wheel steering. But as for a car on a public highway with full on drive by wire I would have a tough time trusting it.

Cyrus1971

855 posts

269 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Makes it clear to me that Infinity do not make drivers cars in the high end lux-segment. Simply wafty barges yes - drivers cars no.

angrymoby

3,056 posts

208 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
So this means they could ditch the steering wheel and go for a joystick.

That would be cool for 10 minutes or so.
SAAB already tried it ...for 10 minutes wink

loudlashadjuster

6,454 posts

214 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
danielj58 said:
Will safety bodies ever allow a complete disconnect though? This seems most peculiar given it's actually a weight penalty too. Seems to be a solution to a problem that has long since been solved.. Steering response too? Are they talking about flex in the actual mechanical components?

Steering feel should improve no end, if simulators can manage it I see no reason why a digital system being fed real data can't. But it still doesn't get around the ultimate question here which is why bother?

Odd, very odd.
Considering the balance of reliability/redundancy and potential injury to driver there will probably be a point where an electric system is declared 'safe' enough.

The 'why bother' is answered upon that point being reached:

  • Weight - obvious removed componentry aside, I imagine the bulkhead would require a lot lees bracing/stiffening for an electic system
  • Occupant safety - again, pretty obvious
  • Packaging - freed from having to work round an immovable metal spear in the middle of the vehicle, interiors should become cheaper and easier to be made in more flexible arrangements
  • Regionalisation - LHD to/from RHD becomes a lot easier
  • Cost - commoditisation of steering parts, easier and quicker development
You'll note that none of these explicitly benefit the driver in terms of day to day use, it's all about making things easier/cheaper to make.

Edited by loudlashadjuster on Monday 14th October 12:26

jamespink

1,218 posts

234 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
I just can't take 'em seriously, never mind the daft steering idea, look at the flippin' thing... Ghastly!

misterchase

12 posts

230 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
I have already had to deal with the fallout of 2 of my fleet getting bent due to the electric steering assistance failing, and the ladies driving not being able to steer unassisted. These incidents could have been far worse if the failures had happened at speed.

This is a step too far IMPO

Cheers
MC

Rob_the_Sparky

1,000 posts

268 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
As much as the idea appalls me I can see why the manufacturers want it, the flexibiility it gives them in designing the car interior is a huge advantage. As for safety, again I don't like it but if it is "safe" to fly an aircraft using fly by wire then I can see it eventually being passed as safe for cars. How you are to maintain that safety on an old, poorly maintained, vehicle though?

The results of a failure at high speed don't bear thinking about.

clonmult

10,529 posts

239 months

Monday 14th October 2013
quotequote all
Rob_the_Sparky said:
As much as the idea appalls me I can see why the manufacturers want it, the flexibiility it gives them in designing the car interior is a huge advantage. As for safety, again I don't like it but if it is "safe" to fly an aircraft using fly by wire then I can see it eventually being passed as safe for cars. How you are to maintain that safety on an old, poorly maintained, vehicle though?

The results of a failure at high speed don't bear thinking about.
Planes have multiple redundant systems and are tested to mildly insane levels; I doubt that Inifiti will go to quite the same lengths.