The key to weight loss

[dhalv]

Hi All,

I have been interested in weight loss and how best to achieve your weight loss goals. Having read around the area, there are two schools of thought, on top of the obvious, calories in must be less that calories burned.

First, and I think more of an old way to look at things has been to do cardio work, running, biking etc.

Secondly, has been to do lots of weight training, you burn more calories and fat loss is greater.

Having said all of this, I am trying to shift some weight and have tried the cardio work, I have improved by CV fitness, as witnessed by improving times when running, however, I seemed to have reached a plateau in my weight loss.

I have got a PT and we are doing lots of body weight exercises and plyometric work. I am hoping this will help, but what sort of weight lifting/ muscle groups could I be doing to maximise the loss.

Cheers Chaps

[944fan]

I have hit a plateau too.

I find mixing up what you do helps. Compound exercises are good for weight loss as they use the biggest muscles (squats, deadlifts, bench, etc.). I switch duration and intensity of my main sports (running, swimming, cycling) every few weeks. This helps from a sports specific stand point but I also find the switch is good for jumpping starting weight loss

[Tallow]

When I was slimming down (I'm onto bulking atm), I hit a plateau too. For some months I felt like I was getting nowhere. The thing that really accelerated it was to continue doing lots of training (i.e. a good 8 or so hours a week) but to change my diet. I didn't eat less, I just changed dietary structure.

Whilst the changes were largely based around paleo eating (can of worms - opened!) I think it was probably the change in split of macronutrients that made the difference. I switched to only getting around 20% of my calories from carbs, which really seemed to help. Once I did that, I was dropping a good kg per week at one point. Got down to my target weight, and have since changed the ratios again to try and gain some mass. I was surprised to discover this to be much harder than the weight loss, actually.

[Hoofy]

Tallow said:

paleo ... can of worms

Certainly, that's paleo.

[dirty boy]

944fan said:

I have hit a plateau too.

I find mixing up what you do helps. Compound exercises are good for weight loss as they use the biggest muscles (squats, deadlifts, bench, etc.). I switch duration and intensity of my main sports (running, swimming, cycling) every few weeks. This helps from a sports specific stand point but I also find the switch is good for jumpping starting weight loss

Like 944 says, compound exercises.

Bench press, deadlifts and squats. Go heavy.

If you're not out of breath after a set of compounds you're doing something wrong!


Finally, not all calories are equal. I noted on another thread that for the last two weeks, i've dropped some cardio and added another day in the gym - increased my calories by around 400 per day and have actually lost weight.

I now drink 3 litres + of water a day, and do IF (Intermittent Fasting) and my carb intake is significantly lower, although not excluded. Half half a jacket spud with chicken and veg last night.

Protein and fats have been increased....now about to dig into a 4 egg and bacon omlette

Force the body to change, it's used to what you're doing, but keep it up, sounds like you're doing well.

[Hoofy]

The above posts have certainly touched on what you need to be changing.

-compound movements focusing on progressive strength training usually following a 5x5 or 3x6 routine (anything will help as long as it's not high rep tricep extensions and bicep curls)
-increase your protein intake whilst keeping your calorie levels down (which invariably means dropping your carb intake) - along with heavy lifting, this will help maintain your muscle mass as you continue to burn fat.

[PoleDriver]

"Calories in must be less than calories out" is too simplified for long term weight loss.
The type of calories (from protein, carbs or fats) is very important, as is the combination of food groups eaten at the same time. Combine this with the fact that no two people are the same and you can see why one person's successful diet is another person's failure.

From personal experience, I lost 30Kg by cutting out beer and greatly reducing carbs and never eating carbs and fats within 2 hours of each other. I restricted myself to 1000-1500 calories per day.
I then (stupidly) changed to the Weight-watchers diet, included the occasional beer and kept to the same number of calories... I gained 10Kg!!

Avoid "diets" and concentrate on sensible eating, portion control and exercise!

[Hoofy]

PoleDriver said:

I then (stupidly) changed to the Weight-watchers diet, included the occasional beer and kept to the same number of calories... I gained 10Kg!!

I thought WW use points not calories - plus all vegetables are free IIRC which doesn't make sense because vegetables have calories in them.

[Team Groom]

I started the 5x5 routine a couple of months ago but have not been giving it full commitment up until now due to holidays and other excuses!

I have still gone down one size on my belt and feel much better.

The gym i joined was a simple Kiss gym, £15.99 a month but they still have 5 weight cages which is ideal for me. A routine takes round 45 mins at the moment and you only need to do 3 a week to see improvements

[PoleDriver]

Hoofy said:

PoleDriver said:

I then (stupidly) changed to the Weight-watchers diet, included the occasional beer and kept to the same number of calories... I gained 10Kg!!

I thought WW use points not calories - plus all vegetables are free IIRC which doesn't make sense because vegetables have calories in them.

I used their recipes/meals and was careful to stick to a combination of calories/points.
Very true about vegetables! Some contain a lot of carbs/calories!

[mattikake]

dhalv said:

First, and I think more of an old way to look at things has been to do cardio work, running, biking etc.

Secondly, has been to do lots of weight training, you burn more calories and fat loss is greater.

Both will burn you calories. But in a nutshell, weight training will burn more in a shorter time, will burn more afterwards with the afterburn effect and will keep you burning more when you don't exercise.

dhalv said:

Having said all of this, I am trying to shift some weight and have tried the cardio work, I have improved by CV fitness, as witnessed by improving times when running, however, I seemed to have reached a plateau in my weight loss.

I have got a PT and we are doing lots of body weight exercises and plyometric work. I am hoping this will help, but what sort of weight lifting/ muscle groups could I be doing to maximise the loss.

Cheers Chaps

That sends my cowboy PT sensors tingling.

Why are you on here asking for advice if you have a PT? Ask them. Unless of course, they don't have any answers... You should never hit a plateau if you have a (good) PT.

As said, bodyweight, unless highly advanced intense exercise or total obese beginner isn't going to be much good for good weight loss. If you've hit a plateau you're just discovering why.

So increase the intensity - Big muscle groups, compound exercises (many muscles) and heavy weight.

As for aiding weight loss through diet, stop eating carbs. Load up on anything else.

Edited by mattikake on Tuesday 15th October 13:25

[goldblum]

mattikake said:

dhalv said:

First, and I think more of an old way to look at things has been to do cardio work, running, biking etc.

Secondly, has been to do lots of weight training, you burn more calories and fat loss is greater.

Both will burn you calories. But in a nutshell, weight training will burn more in a shorter time

True, or the other way of looking at it is you can run for much longer than you can do weights, therefore cardio is the best exercise for total calorie expenditure.

mattikake said:

weights... will burn more afterwards with the afterburn effect and will keep you burning more when you don't exercise.

Many variables here. Metabolism can be raised for a considerably longer time after a run than most weights sessions. Did you mean metabolic rates or were you referring to increased blood flow, lipid absorption, hormone release etc...which also occurs with running?

[dhalv]

mattikake said:

That sends my cowboy PT sensors tingling.

Why are you on here asking for advice if you have a PT? Ask them. Unless of course, they don't have any answers... You should never hit a plateau if you have a (good) PT.

As said, bodyweight, unless highly advanced intense exercise or total obese beginner isn't going to be much good for good weight loss. If you've hit a plateau you're just discovering why.

So increase the intensity - Big muscle groups, compound exercises (many muscles) and heavy weight.

As for aiding weight loss through diet, stop eating carbs. Load up on anything else.

Edited by mattikake on Tuesday 15th October 13:25

I am pretty sure that he is not a cowboy, I have just recently started so will monitor the benefit. However, due to the high cost, I am only doing one session a week, and need to supplement those exercises with something else, hence the discussion thread.

After the PT sessions I am properly fked, well interms of being exhausted with all mu muscles feeling like jelly.

I guess, I need to keep working hard and the benefits will pay off!

[mattikake]

I was trying to avoid another PH verbose post with something succinct, true, yet personally knowledge seeking inducing for the OP, alas...

goldblum said:

mattikake said:

dhalv said:

First, and I think more of an old way to look at things has been to do cardio work, running, biking etc.

Secondly, has been to do lots of weight training, you burn more calories and fat loss is greater.

Both will burn you calories. But in a nutshell, weight training will burn more in a shorter time

True, or the other way of looking at it is you can run for much longer than you can do weights, therefore cardio is the best exercise for total calorie expenditure.

Of course, but given the choice of exercise by their PT, the way I chose to look at it was weight training will burn more in a shorter time, making calorie expenditure of weights more time efficient.

goldblum said:

mattikake said:

weights... will burn more afterwards with the afterburn effect and will keep you burning more when you don't exercise.

Many variables here. Metabolism can be raised for a considerably longer time after a run than most weights sessions. Did you mean metabolic rates or were you referring to increased blood flow, lipid absorption, hormone release etc...which also occurs with running?

Nah, just referring to building more myogenic and neurogenic muscle tone generally, which running can also do of course providing fuelled and trained accordingly, the reverse if not.

Edited by mattikake on Tuesday 15th October 14:21

[mattikake]

dhalv said:

mattikake said:

That sends my cowboy PT sensors tingling.

Why are you on here asking for advice if you have a PT? Ask them. Unless of course, they don't have any answers... You should never hit a plateau if you have a (good) PT.

As said, bodyweight, unless highly advanced intense exercise or total obese beginner isn't going to be much good for good weight loss. If you've hit a plateau you're just discovering why.

So increase the intensity - Big muscle groups, compound exercises (many muscles) and heavy weight.

As for aiding weight loss through diet, stop eating carbs. Load up on anything else.

Edited by mattikake on Tuesday 15th October 13:25

I am pretty sure that he is not a cowboy, I have just recently started so will monitor the benefit. However, due to the high cost, I am only doing one session a week, and need to supplement those exercises with something else, hence the discussion thread.

After the PT sessions I am properly fked, well interms of being exhausted with all mu muscles feeling like jelly.

I guess, I need to keep working hard and the benefits will pay off!

Ok.

So how come you've hit a plateau if you've only just started with a PT? (That's not a plateau, that's taking a course of action to keep progression going) It sounds like you've missed the most important lesson of all: patience. This should be the first thing the PT explained to you once training began.

Has your PT given you or intends to give you, a diet plan? If not, why not?

Have they given you or intend to give you, exercise routines to do on at least 2 other sessions in the week/gym by yourself? If not, why not?

[dhalv]

mattikake said:

Ok.

So how come you've hit a plateau if you've only just started with a PT? (That's not a plateau, that's taking a course of action to keep progression going) It sounds like you've missed the most important lesson of all: patience. This should be the first thing the PT explained to you once training began.

Has your PT given you or intends to give you, a diet plan? If not, why not?

Have they given you or intend to give you, exercise routines to do on at least 2 other sessions in the week/gym by yourself? If not, why not?

I hear you - the plateau refers to the fact that I have been going at it for about 8 months, lost 11 kilos in the first 6, but did not manage to shift anything after that for about a month after, so then decided to take the step of getting a PT onboard.

Yep, got a diet plan and an exercise plan, but wanted to know what else I could supplement - i.e. more weights or cardio.

To be honest I have been enjoying running, used to hate it, and keen to keep it up, but my ultimate goal is weight loss!!

Thanks for the advice to all - great discussion!

[grumbledoak]

For most effective weight loss bin sugar, especially sugary drinks (even fruit juices), and alcohol. They are addictive empty calories that you mentally don't count. If you want to push it further: bin flour, further still: bin all the rest of the white carbs. Eat if you are hungry, don't if you are not. You will lose weight.

[PoleDriver]

grumbledoak said:

For most effective weight loss bin sugar, especially sugary drinks (even fruit juices), and alcohol. They are addictive empty calories that you mentally don't count. If you want to push it further: bin flour, further still: bin all the rest of the white carbs. Eat if you are hungry, don't if you are not. You will lose weight.

[Happy82]

grumbledoak said:

For most effective weight loss bin sugar, especially sugary drinks (even fruit juices), and alcohol. They are addictive empty calories that you mentally don't count. If you want to push it further: bin flour, further still: bin all the rest of the white carbs. Eat if you are hungry, don't if you are not. You will lose weight.

I lost a load of weight doing this, lost my cravings for sugary products too!

[grumbledoak]

Happy82 said:

lost my cravings for sugary products too!

Farmers learned long ago to feed cattle on grains to fatten them for market. And, later on, that cattle would eat foods they normally turn their nose up at if you added sugar.

Then some bright spark realized he could make a lot more money if he just persuaded people to cut out the animal and eat the cattle feed direct. Now, how could he do that? And what would the animal feed do to people?