how to loose 300kg ?
Discussion
McLaren M8D CAN-AM weight 634 kg
Power 670hp
So my silly question since these cars are based on the same construction how can the race care be
350kg less ?
I have no idea how to shave off 350 kg of an ultima canam. There is probably some weight to save from
the chassis and making motor and gear box integral part of the chassis, but that probably gives 50kg max.
Where can I find the other 300kg.
Power 670hp
So my silly question since these cars are based on the same construction how can the race care be
350kg less ?
I have no idea how to shave off 350 kg of an ultima canam. There is probably some weight to save from
the chassis and making motor and gear box integral part of the chassis, but that probably gives 50kg max.
Where can I find the other 300kg.
don't use the factory brass radiator, instead use a thinner alloy radiator. I have had one in my GTR for two years without a heating problem in Southern California. But this rad came with some much better fans than the ones provided by the factory.
don't install a heater or air conditioning.
Go to a lighter rim my suggestion is the CCW forged rims from florida. They are a bit lighter than the factory three piece.
pay attention to the weight of the tires
mill off the ears on the uprights that are not used and file sand and bead blast the uprights they look a lot better and weigh maybe a lb less for all 4 corners.
go to a Stack or Motec single piece dash
keep the interior to a practical minimum.
No alarms, electric doors, radios ect
forget all this nonsense about two tanks 8 pumps crossovers surge tanks ect ect. put one tank in the space between the back of the seat and the front of the engine crosswise install a internal pump and filter. yea it will be a pain but it will work.
OK the above might get you 100 kilos. Some will post and suggest a change to a "lighter engine" like a turbo Audi. for 550 horse power that is drivEable I think you need to look at the total package before you can say another engine is lighter than an LS. Total package includes engine turbos intercoolers plumbing you get the idea. lee
don't install a heater or air conditioning.
Go to a lighter rim my suggestion is the CCW forged rims from florida. They are a bit lighter than the factory three piece.
pay attention to the weight of the tires
mill off the ears on the uprights that are not used and file sand and bead blast the uprights they look a lot better and weigh maybe a lb less for all 4 corners.
go to a Stack or Motec single piece dash
keep the interior to a practical minimum.
No alarms, electric doors, radios ect
forget all this nonsense about two tanks 8 pumps crossovers surge tanks ect ect. put one tank in the space between the back of the seat and the front of the engine crosswise install a internal pump and filter. yea it will be a pain but it will work.
OK the above might get you 100 kilos. Some will post and suggest a change to a "lighter engine" like a turbo Audi. for 550 horse power that is drivEable I think you need to look at the total package before you can say another engine is lighter than an LS. Total package includes engine turbos intercoolers plumbing you get the idea. lee
dudleybloke said:
your ultima is built to last.
the race car is built to last a race.
A race car is built to last, but only the race! Lolthe race car is built to last a race.
On a serious note, the race car will have waffer thin body work. The chassis will use the engine and box as integral structures. They will run NO fans for cooling. Minimal electronics to work the car. Light weight engine and gearbox that where the weight is low down in the chassis. Lighter wheels. No or minimal lights. bodywork fastened direct to the chassis. Etc etc etc.
If you look in the readers car section there is a RWD seat Ibiza that still has the steel chassis, uses an iron block and is still under 1000kg! There are several scoobies and Evos out there racing that are under 1000kg.
The bodywork is a weighty bit too. Martins SS car bodywork is a 1/3 of mine.
the wheels
the engine(whats a rs6 weigh compared to ls?
g50/52, god I can hardly lift it?
all the ally panels in carbon
the doors are double skinned
and a lot of other things.
I was watching an Enzo Topgear program the other day. that car is only 200-300 kg heavier than ours yet, it has so many more bits. its a finished road car, airbags etc
the wheels
the engine(whats a rs6 weigh compared to ls?
g50/52, god I can hardly lift it?
all the ally panels in carbon
the doors are double skinned
and a lot of other things.
I was watching an Enzo Topgear program the other day. that car is only 200-300 kg heavier than ours yet, it has so many more bits. its a finished road car, airbags etc
thanks factory
exactly my thinking where can you find 300kg ? or is the mclaren data wrong ?
Osella PA2000 hill climber is weighing 487 kg dry, but this is using a honda 2.0
and probably a very lightweight gear box.
The Mclaren was using a 7,6 liter V8 surely not made from aluminium so a modern LS7
should actually be lighter than the mcLaren engine.
exactly my thinking where can you find 300kg ? or is the mclaren data wrong ?
Osella PA2000 hill climber is weighing 487 kg dry, but this is using a honda 2.0
and probably a very lightweight gear box.
The Mclaren was using a 7,6 liter V8 surely not made from aluminium so a modern LS7
should actually be lighter than the mcLaren engine.
F.C. said:
Err, it's the chassis
Mainly! Race cars of the 70's were not known for having great amounts of crash structure etc - look at any photos of the McLaren without the bodywork and you will see next to no spaceframe chassis present.The bodywork will also be paper thin, with probably only a single coat of paint etc.
Don't underestimate the amount of weight in the windscreen, wiring, fuel tanks, sensors, seats, plumbing etc etc - soon adds up.
Smaller wheels fitted with smaller tyres will make a big difference - the slicks we run weight about half a ton each!
Ultima factory said:
andygtt said:
Lighter Wheels and brakes will save 100kgs
Clutch and flywheel will be close to 20kgs lighter. No passenger seat or dash etc etc
I suspect the quoted weight is dry as well.
Our Ultima wheels weigh 44.2kgs total and our Ultima brakes weigh 44kg total. Therefore please explain how will lighter wheels and brakes save 100kgs?Clutch and flywheel will be close to 20kgs lighter. No passenger seat or dash etc etc
I suspect the quoted weight is dry as well.
Our clutch (now aluminium as standard) and flywheel weighs 14kgs (previous steel version clutch with flywheel weighed 17kgs). Therefore please explain how you will save close to 20kgs?
Regards
The unsprung weight of an ultima will be over 200kgs including uprights etc etc... on the canam racer it will be half that hence 100kgs!
Clutch and flywheel in racer will be close to 5kgs mine is and takes 650ftlb... the clutch in my Ultima was much heavier than you quote and also came from kennedy but even if it is now 17kgs thats still a +10kgs weight saving.
The question was why is the canam racer lighter than an ultima not why is an ultima as there is a large difference between a race car and a usable reliable road car... care to help explain the 350kgs? do you have any ideas?
thanks for clearing up exactly what I was saying... i'm still correct that these areas are were there are significant savings on the race car in question with as much as 100kgs in the wheels and brakes area (and associated items attached to them) and some savings on the clutch... care to add a useful post on this thread?
Paul.B said:
Are you two ever going to stop?
He started it Sir!
No Sir, it was him!!
Now shake hands and get back to work.
I dont call being picked apart for trying to reply to a thread "starting" Paul... think its clear what I was trying to say and I wasn't being derogatory about the ultima product!He started it Sir!
No Sir, it was him!!
Now shake hands and get back to work.Exactly the same 'reductions' would apply to my noble against the canam racer in question and I rate my car highly lol
found this
the M8A was four inches (10 cm) wider and comprised a full monocoque using aluminum and magnesium panels bonded and riveted to steel bulkheads. Its engine was now a stressed member supported by tubular framework and where the M6A had used 5.8-¬litre Chevrolet V8s with 520bhp, the M8A went the whole way with 7-litre unit, developed by Gary Knutson. These gave 620bhp, transmitted to the road via a Hewland LG600 gearbox to 15-inch (38 cm) wide Goodyear shod rear wheels. The suspension followed M6A practice with upper and lower lateral links and trailing radius arms at the front and a lateral top link, lower wishbone and twin radius arms at the rear, all allied to outboard coil spring damper unit. Solid disc brakes were replaced by ventilated units all round.
the M8A was four inches (10 cm) wider and comprised a full monocoque using aluminum and magnesium panels bonded and riveted to steel bulkheads. Its engine was now a stressed member supported by tubular framework and where the M6A had used 5.8-¬litre Chevrolet V8s with 520bhp, the M8A went the whole way with 7-litre unit, developed by Gary Knutson. These gave 620bhp, transmitted to the road via a Hewland LG600 gearbox to 15-inch (38 cm) wide Goodyear shod rear wheels. The suspension followed M6A practice with upper and lower lateral links and trailing radius arms at the front and a lateral top link, lower wishbone and twin radius arms at the rear, all allied to outboard coil spring damper unit. Solid disc brakes were replaced by ventilated units all round.
very close to what my canam is sounding with the "special" exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOki34YkK4
even greater
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xLGMJei36o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOki34YkK4
even greater
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xLGMJei36o
Edited by spatz on Wednesday 16th October 16:49
not sure if i posted this already last year in Aalen in very bad wheater conditions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlRAzGkXBag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlRAzGkXBag
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