Tyres: mid range V premium range
Discussion
Recently had a new car with Continental contact 3's all round. After 4000 miles or so I needed to replace the front two due to nails, they were too close to the edge to be repaired. (not sure if deliberate or not but was in London on a stopover for the night with work)
At the garage they didn't have any Conti's in stock so I asked them to put what they had in for the size needed and went for a less known brand (Kumho), Intention was to get home and replace these with two continentals when I have time to visit a local garage who had them in stock.
However...The Kumhmo's which the garage have put on are: Ecsta LE Sport KU39 _225/40/17 and after traveling home from London and then a bit back and forth to the office I think they might be a little bit better than the continentals I original had on. Noise is less, grip seems slightly better and overall ride just seems less "thuddy" if that's the correct word (if a word) to use.
Has anyone had any experience with going from whats supposedly a premium brand (well certainly premium priced) to the Kumho range, looking online they appear to be competing with the premium brands (noise actually has better ratings than 2 premium brands) but for almost half the price!
Considering swapping the back two out if honest at this rate!
At the garage they didn't have any Conti's in stock so I asked them to put what they had in for the size needed and went for a less known brand (Kumho), Intention was to get home and replace these with two continentals when I have time to visit a local garage who had them in stock.
However...The Kumhmo's which the garage have put on are: Ecsta LE Sport KU39 _225/40/17 and after traveling home from London and then a bit back and forth to the office I think they might be a little bit better than the continentals I original had on. Noise is less, grip seems slightly better and overall ride just seems less "thuddy" if that's the correct word (if a word) to use.
Has anyone had any experience with going from whats supposedly a premium brand (well certainly premium priced) to the Kumho range, looking online they appear to be competing with the premium brands (noise actually has better ratings than 2 premium brands) but for almost half the price!
Considering swapping the back two out if honest at this rate!
Still a lot of 'snob appeal' about premium tyres and when you dig deeper and see who actually owns who in the tyre world it makes for interesting reading, along with the branding. How many people drive flat out in the wet and want 10/10th when 90% of us want good grip in the wet, low noise, equal wear and decent economy from our tyres? If changing tyres every year and spending close to £800 a set, along with a motorway commute and general motoring duties I would consider a newer name so long as they offer me what I want. I run Dunlop on one car and Michelin on another and Avon on a third, no complaints here as they all do a certain job very well.
I had Conti Sportcontact 3s on my C30 T5 and honestly they were awful - I don't understand why they're rated so highly. They tramlined, had poor grip and had much poorer feeling and comfort than the cheaper Pirelli winter tyres (albeit they were a smaller size).
So I wouldn't be surprised if Kumhos are just as good, if not better.
ETA: Have to say, I've been very impressed with Vredestein, which are often at mid-range prices.
So I wouldn't be surprised if Kumhos are just as good, if not better.
ETA: Have to say, I've been very impressed with Vredestein, which are often at mid-range prices.
Edited by gherkins on Wednesday 16th October 08:34
New 8mm tyres vs old 2mm
My money is still on the Conti as a better tyre, even though it's quite old now
Some test where the Conti still wins:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-EVO-Tyre...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-European...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-EVO-Max-...
My money is still on the Conti as a better tyre, even though it's quite old now
Some test where the Conti still wins:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-EVO-Tyre...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-European...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-EVO-Max-...
It depends on what car. On my old 320 & 530, i didnt have any issues running Falkens, perfectly suitable. However, i recently bought a CLS 55 AMG which has Falkens on the back and quite honestly they are f***ing frightening, they spin up at any speed and will be replaced as soon as convenient!
What car are you speaking about using them on. I have also had conti 3's on both the BMW's and found them to be excellent if slightly unneccesary...
What car are you speaking about using them on. I have also had conti 3's on both the BMW's and found them to be excellent if slightly unneccesary...
neil_bmw said:
It depends on what car. On my old 320 & 530, i didnt have any issues running Falkens, perfectly suitable. However, i recently bought a CLS 55 AMG which has Falkens on the back and quite honestly they are f***ing frightening, they spin up at any speed and will be replaced as soon as convenient!
What car are you speaking about using them on. I have also had conti 3's on both the BMW's and found them to be excellent if slightly unneccesary...
Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo TSI (2013) no rocket ship like yours but good to throw around now and thenWhat car are you speaking about using them on. I have also had conti 3's on both the BMW's and found them to be excellent if slightly unneccesary...
I used to work in the car industry (vehicle testing) and have overseen many tyre testing sessions.
With the pros / serious drivers it's one thing, but the general public it is quite another.
I've seen people swear blind the second tyre was better ("better grip and turn in" was one guys favourite phrase) when in reality he was in the control sample using the same tyre...
With the pros / serious drivers it's one thing, but the general public it is quite another.
I've seen people swear blind the second tyre was better ("better grip and turn in" was one guys favourite phrase) when in reality he was in the control sample using the same tyre...
The Subaru has been run on Pirelli P Zero tyres since new as they were OE, but last year I changed all 4 for Toyo Proxes T1R's. I'd had they on previous cars and thought they were good. They really suit the Impreza, and are much better in the wet - the Pirellis were awful, almost scary.
Have just shod the fiesta in Toyos all round as well, for about half the price of the Subaru.
Have just shod the fiesta in Toyos all round as well, for about half the price of the Subaru.
I think that once you have paid enough to get out of the ling-long/etc. tyre market, the so called premium priced tyres are just marketed better (infact the very reason they are called premium)
take Pirelli, old name, many years experience, shockingly bad tyres.
that's not to say every one they make is bad, I am sure some specific applications are a good match, however, overall, they are shocking bad.
then you take Kuhmo, relative newcomers, from Korea, can't say what they tyres were like 20 years ago, however, now? well, I am not about to tell you they are the best tyre in the world, but they are pretty decent, personally, I would rate them better than Pirelli's (PZero's particularly), and only marginally worse performance than the very best of Michelin/Goodyear/etc. have to offer.
Now, I am not saying that Kumho will make the best tyre for every car, some car/tyre combinations just work, some don't, (a lot of this also depends what the cars dynamics were setup for in the first place), along with each tyre having their own characteristics.
I wonder how much of the OEM market is based on tyre companies pretty much giving away their tyres to the OEM's to get them std fit? and thus the OEM's priorities are as much about £££ as do they actually work?
take Pirelli, old name, many years experience, shockingly bad tyres.
that's not to say every one they make is bad, I am sure some specific applications are a good match, however, overall, they are shocking bad.
then you take Kuhmo, relative newcomers, from Korea, can't say what they tyres were like 20 years ago, however, now? well, I am not about to tell you they are the best tyre in the world, but they are pretty decent, personally, I would rate them better than Pirelli's (PZero's particularly), and only marginally worse performance than the very best of Michelin/Goodyear/etc. have to offer.
Now, I am not saying that Kumho will make the best tyre for every car, some car/tyre combinations just work, some don't, (a lot of this also depends what the cars dynamics were setup for in the first place), along with each tyre having their own characteristics.
I wonder how much of the OEM market is based on tyre companies pretty much giving away their tyres to the OEM's to get them std fit? and thus the OEM's priorities are as much about £££ as do they actually work?
Eth2312 said:
Recently had a new car with Continental contact 3's all round. After 4000 miles or so I needed to replace the front two due to nails, they were too close to the edge to be repaired. (not sure if deliberate or not but was in London on a stopover for the night with work)
At the garage they didn't have any Conti's in stock so I asked them to put what they had in for the size needed and went for a less known brand (Kumho), Intention was to get home and replace these with two continentals when I have time to visit a local garage who had them in stock.
However...The Kumhmo's which the garage have put on are: Ecsta LE Sport KU39 _225/40/17 and after traveling home from London and then a bit back and forth to the office I think they might be a little bit better than the continentals I original had on. Noise is less, grip seems slightly better and overall ride just seems less "thuddy" if that's the correct word (if a word) to use.
Has anyone had any experience with going from whats supposedly a premium brand (well certainly premium priced) to the Kumho range, looking online they appear to be competing with the premium brands (noise actually has better ratings than 2 premium brands) but for almost half the price!
Considering swapping the back two out if honest at this rate!
Kumho is very well known. As are many brands, the fact most people only know a couple of brands doesn't really mean anything.At the garage they didn't have any Conti's in stock so I asked them to put what they had in for the size needed and went for a less known brand (Kumho), Intention was to get home and replace these with two continentals when I have time to visit a local garage who had them in stock.
However...The Kumhmo's which the garage have put on are: Ecsta LE Sport KU39 _225/40/17 and after traveling home from London and then a bit back and forth to the office I think they might be a little bit better than the continentals I original had on. Noise is less, grip seems slightly better and overall ride just seems less "thuddy" if that's the correct word (if a word) to use.
Has anyone had any experience with going from whats supposedly a premium brand (well certainly premium priced) to the Kumho range, looking online they appear to be competing with the premium brands (noise actually has better ratings than 2 premium brands) but for almost half the price!
Considering swapping the back two out if honest at this rate!
As for your thread title mid vs premium??
What does this mean exactly? Premium does not intrinsically mean better, it just means more expensive as a rule. This is true of almost any commercial product or service.
Therefore the only logical thing to do is base opinions on actual specifics, such as reviews for individual tyres or even from your own experience.
If you are currently happy with them, it would seem madness to want to pay out to change them to something you claim would be inferior, on the only basis that in your opinion you think they are more 'premium'.
I've always suspected that 'law of diminishing returns' applies here; Wanli and the ilk do tend to be utter crap, spend a little bit more on Uniroyals or Kumho and get a much, much better tyre. You can then spend double on your Contis and the difference is marginal. Unless I had something very special I personally wouldn't bother with top-end tyres, but then by the same token I would avoid budgets wherever possible.
I used to run Dunlop SP Sport 9000s on a Mercedes ML and ended up swapping them for Khumos Ecsta (or whatever they are called), this saved about £20.00 per tyre over the cheapest well known brand.
I can honestly say that after 2 years and 16,000 miles the only difference I have noticed is that they probably have only about 90% of the outright dry grip that the Dunlops had. In the wet and in all normal dry driving (including heavy braking) they are literally identical.
I have to be pushing really hard in the dry to notice any difference at all, and all that happens is that the Khumos start to complain (squeel) at slightly slower speeds than the Dunlops.
Am I happy to stick Khumos on again ? YES, have I stuck them on SWMBO's car ? YES. Would I stick them on the Porsche for racing around in the summer,,,,, probably not, but then thats more to do with brand snobbery than anything else :-)
I can honestly say that after 2 years and 16,000 miles the only difference I have noticed is that they probably have only about 90% of the outright dry grip that the Dunlops had. In the wet and in all normal dry driving (including heavy braking) they are literally identical.
I have to be pushing really hard in the dry to notice any difference at all, and all that happens is that the Khumos start to complain (squeel) at slightly slower speeds than the Dunlops.
Am I happy to stick Khumos on again ? YES, have I stuck them on SWMBO's car ? YES. Would I stick them on the Porsche for racing around in the summer,,,,, probably not, but then thats more to do with brand snobbery than anything else :-)
Eth2312 said:
Recently had a new car with Continental contact 3's all round. After 4000 miles or so I needed to replace the front two due to nails,
That's the con tinental stylee for you. Their business is like a perpetum mobile. I had no recurring nail related issues with other brands only them. I'd recommend either Vrederstein, or Goodyear Eagle F1 A2Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff