Grangemouth what should the Scottish government do?

[Mojocvh]

So, purposely avoiding taking a "side" over the dispute, what do Scottish Phers think the government should to to firstly minimise the effect of any shortage of fuel supplies AND perhaps more importantly, in the long run, ensure the viability of the plant itself.

cheers

Mo.

[KENZ]

Must admit. I was somewhat surprised to hear that it was operating at a loss of 10million pounds a month. No company can sustain that. Don't even think the coal industry near its demise was operating with those figures.

I still don't believe it. But if it is the case why has it been left to get so bad. Poor management, lack of investment? This needs looked at now not shutdown. Scotland cannot lose these jobs.

[young_bairn]

Sure they are not making money but thats because ineos are spending money on upgrades and maintenance. They are into year 3 of a 5 year improvement plan so I am led to believe. Somewhat surprised by the bullish stand offs. As for the government it's a tough one to call without seeing the long term plan. If the plant was to close or at least part of it then it would be devastating for the area.

[amccan10]

I think the Chinese have made their decision, it will be closed. Trying to get the workers to strike will just give them more reason to do so

[Robert Burns]

It loses £10 million for the chemical side, Some plants on the chemical side make money but not enough to offset.

The oil refinery is completely different. If I remember right. Its £150million down every year.

On the fuel shortage side. Its not the refinery side fault that fuel shortages happen. The refinery is shutdown every couple of weeks, Big massive flame out of it means that everything is getting poured up in flame. It shutdowns for a month for maintenance aswell and it doesn't effect supplies.

What isn't going to help is everyone filling up at every moment, they have atleast a 3 month supply at a normal day.

[natben]

If the goverment give the plant £150 million does the taxpayer get shares in return. When we bailed out the banks we got shares which will hopefull be sold in the future to get the money back. I don,t mind them getting money if we get shares in it but the taxpayer can't go around funding every failed company in scotland with our cash.

[andy_s]

natben said:

If the goverment give the plant £150 million does the taxpayer get shares in return. When we bailed out the banks we got shares which will hopefull be sold in the future to get the money back. I don,t mind them getting money if we get shares in it but the taxpayer can't go around funding every failed company in scotland with our cash.

If it's a failed company then it's not a good investment.

[paul555sti]

natben said:

If the goverment give the plant £150 million does the taxpayer get shares in return. When we bailed out the banks we got shares which will hopefull be sold in the future to get the money back. I don,t mind them getting money if we get shares in it but the taxpayer can't go around funding every failed company in scotland with our cash.

They are looking for the government to under write loans, not loan them money.

[Chim]

It will close, of that there is little doubt, another nail in Scotland's industrial coffin.

[MidnightXR6]

Its not all shut down though. Dont believe the news reports

[Klippie]

Oil companies loosing money...I didn't think that was possible.

Theres more going on here behind the scenes it'll be interesting to see what plays out, someone is looking for money the excuse is closing the plant.

Greed everywhere.

[paul555sti]

I bloody hope it doesn't close or i'll be looking for work. Should know more by Tuesday.

[SrMoreno]

It's not looking good:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342

[Davel]

paul555sti said:

They are looking for the government to under write loans, not loan them money.

Why should they though? If the business isn't viable and continues to lose money, won't the Government then have to stump up the funds in the event that the company folds?

It's very sad for all concerned but the Unions have rather forced the issue to the detriment of their own members.

[amccan10]

Davel said:

the Unions have rather forced the issue to the detriment of their own members.

Don't agree with that last bit, it has been on the cards for a while, bully boy tactics to try and force a strike so that they can use the union as an excuse for closing the plant

[paul555sti]

Yes looking grim now. This was released yesterday..

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/22/in...

The loan was for a tank to feed one of the crackers which will now be closed if todays news is followed through.

[Martin4356111]

Davel said:

It's very sad for all concerned but the Unions have rather forced the issue to the detriment of their own members.

I tend to agree with the above. For far too long the Unions have thought that they are bigger than any one company.

You can't expect a company to loose £10 million and month and not have to make changes. Sadly 800 or so workers are now facing the prospect of being unemployed. You've got to ask the question, was making changes to the pension and a pay freeze worth loosing your job over? Probably not.

I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years, welcome to the club!

[Davel]

amccan10 said:

Don't agree with that last bit, it has been on the cards for a while, bully boy tactics to try and force a strike so that they can use the union as an excuse for closing the plant

You may have a point and it has certainly worked if that's the case.

A business has to be viable though and no company can continue to lose money in that way.

[buachaille193]

Probably naive of me, but looking at this: (Chemical sales drive export growth)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...

I can only hope that someone does buy the plant.

In related bad news in that sector: (BASF are shutting their Paisley plant)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...

So, 1500 jobs going. If the Ineos figure is just for the petrochemical side, then how many more are at risk in the refinery now?

[hidetheelephants]

I don't necessarily believe it, but on the radio this morning they interviewed the least articulate shop steward they could find. From the garbled story he related the union seem to be playing a straight, if naive, bat on this one; they had offered a no-strike deal while talks were ongoing, yet the management shut the plant 'because of threatened strike action'. The local MP has also weighed in with allegations that Ineos want to dump the place because of unfavourable contract obligations inherited from BP. There's a lot of mileage in this dispute yet.