Noble 3R Vs Elise 111R

[latyshev]

Has anyone owned both cars?
I would very much appreciate if anyone could provide the following info:

1. Is noble significantly faster the elise? What about twisties?
2. Which one is better build quality?
3. Which one is safer in case of a crash?
4. Finally which one will be a better daily driver?

Cheers

[Ash GTO 3R]

latyshev said:

Has anyone owned both cars? I would very much appreciate if anyone could provide the following info: 1. Is noble significantly faster the elise? What about twisties? 2. Which one is better build quality? 3. Which one is safer in case of a crash? 4. Finally which one will be a better daily driver? Cheers

1.MUCH MUCH faster and will overtake an Elise on a bend :smile:
2. Noble
3. Noble, it has a roll cage
4. Noble

I have owned an Elise 135R Sport, was fantastic, but compared to the Noble, no competition.

[Jaz34]

I had a Lotus 340R,

Same as Ash above....

Noble.
Noble.
Noble.
Noble.


Jaz34

[DanH]

I dunno if a noble would be better in a crash. Guess it depends on what type of crash etc. The Elise has at least been crash tested and has a designed in front crash structure. I don't think the noble has, but it has size on its side and as mentioned a full roll cage. Personally I wouldn't like to crash either as they aren't exactly full of airbags etc.

As a daily drive the noble probably just edges it, as its easier to get in and out of. It is bigger though, can have issues with speed bumps and has no boot. On the plus side people get out of your way on motorways

On the speed front, the Noble blows the elise away. 0-100mph is mid to high 8s vs 13 sec. Thats one hell of a difference. Its hard to judge which is faster through corners on track as too much of it depends on the driver. The noble certainly isn't slow through corners despite what some delusional Elise drivers might think about the cars pace.

I did test drive an S2 Exige before going for the Noble, and it simply didn't offer enough speed to be worth the upgrade cost (I had an S2 Elise). Overtaking in a Noble is just awe inspiring. Space literally folds around you. You don't manoeuver into a position on the road, you decide you want to be there and its happened whilst you were still thinking about it.

All of the above, is of course as it should be given that a Noble costs a significant amount more, and as a more expensive car will likely cost more to run.

[joust]

The elise is very impressive in a front end crash at 30mph - see the "Making of the Elise" video for evidence of that.

However, an early Noble was crashed at 120+kmph by (I think) the son of the owner of the S.A. factory straight into Armco, and they both walked out.

No crash at speed is "good", but the Noble, it seems, is rather strong in heavy crashes.

Remember also that GRP is a very good crash structure - like carbon fibre, the "splintering" effect that GRP has dissipates massive amounts of energy away from the structure.

However, if you've seen yesterday's 5th gear you'll realise that any crash isn't good news, crash structures cannot overcome the simple physics of your internal organs coming under massive deacceleration.....

My advice - don't stack *any* car at speed! (simple I know, but pretty much true....)

J

[amg merc]

As Joust mentioned it, I don't understand yesterday's 5th Gear crash test - so a Smart doesn't disintegrate at 70mph into concrete blocks but the occupants would, er?!

[joust]

amg merc said:

As Joust mentioned it, I don't understand yesterday's 5th Gear crash test - so a Smart doesn't disintegrate at 70mph into concrete blocks but the occupants would, er?!

It's down to the fact that your internal organs have quite a bit of mass. If the "shell" doesn't deform then you get massive de-acceleration happening to the occupants, and hence their organs.

Beyond -60G (i.e. 60 times gravity deacceleration) your internal organs actually start to "compress" against the ribs and other structures of your body, and unfortauntly they don't "recover".

If you want I can email you, off line, a website that shows not only videos of the crashes, but also the autopsy afterwards of what happens when people hit things at >-60G - hearts come out just 2" wide, lungs come out a jelly mess and perhaps worse, brains end up filling just the front half of the brain....

For a slightly less graphic, but neverless the same principle, see

www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/death1.htm

That is only a "-10G" accident - imagine something bigger than that by 6 times (which is what I think they said was the internal forces of the smart car hitting the barrier).

Ironically the bigger the car the more it would move the concrete, and hence the -G would be less, and hence you have intrisically a better chance of survival -who said SUV's were all bad...

J

[N1 GJT]

Have owned 2 Elises, the last one a Mk2 135 - more responsive than a 111s.
My 3R is a lot lot faster, but the handling of the Lotus is sweeter.
Reliabilty - Lotus believe it or not. No problems at all. Stands up to track days with minimal tyre and brake wear. The Noble is back for its 3rd garage visit in 3000 miles - leaking turbo gaskets, terrible brake fade (admitedly at Bedford Autodrome) and numerous minor faults.
Every day use - Lotus again. Easier to get in and out (and I am 6ft 41/2inches) and less time in garage. The front does not ground unlike the Noble which shovels up gravel, leaves and other rubbish.
The cars are completely different in price and performance, but clearly appeal to a similar market.

[DanH]

N1 GJT said:

Have owned 2 Elises, the last one a Mk2 135 - more responsive than a 111s. My 3R is a lot lot faster, but the handling of the Lotus is sweeter. Reliabilty - Lotus believe it or not. No problems at all. Stands up to track days with minimal tyre and brake wear. The Noble is back for its 3rd garage visit in 3000 miles - leaking turbo gaskets, terrible brake fade (admitedly at Bedford Autodrome) and numerous minor faults. Every day use - Lotus again. Easier to get in and out (and I am 6ft 41/2inches) and less time in garage. The front does not ground unlike the Noble which shovels up gravel, leaves and other rubbish. The cars are completely different in price and performance, but clearly appeal to a similar market.

How many laps were you doing to get the brake fade? Not taken mine on track yet, although the previous owner did. I've got the solid brake line upgrade which apparently helps things, and other have ducted cold air onto their front discs. I have slightly mixed feelings about this as I don't think it vents evenly onto the disc which isn't ideal.

Did you have AO48s on the front of your s2? I had a standard one, and found the turn in understeer a constant drag. Much prefer the Nobles balance in respect to this. The Elise was pretty snappy on the limit too, which isn't ideal given I had to trail break to get decent turn in!

Also find the noble much more relaxing to drive on the road as its just a nicer environment. The extra mass which admitedly you can feel when driving hard takes some of the harshness out of our crappy road surfaces.

To be honest, I don't think its particularly fair comparing the running costs of a tracked noble vs an Elise as the liz is a lighter, cheaper car with far less performance. Its fairer to compare against a 911 GT3 or something, and they cost a fortune to track.

[joust]

The road pads can fade it seems, mainly due to not being able to cope with the additional heat. The solid brake line stops any "squishy pedal", but I've never bothered as I do a full lap and a bit cooldown on track and that seems to keep things happy.

Swap the pads to the DS2500 version and things get much better, without any noticable downside for the road.

They are "quite" expensive (~120 a set from memory), but also give much better pedal "feel" and more percived "bite". The Lotus seems to have more track orientated pads from the outset (which does mean it's a bit disconcerting for novice drivers when they first hit the brake and nothing seems to happen!).

J

[DanH]

I think the main thing with the Elise is that its lighter so despite not having particularly good pads as standard, they don't have to work as hard. I could fade them out no problem though, which is why so many people fit pagids.

Think I may have the DS2500s on the M12 already as I remember Andy getting them.

[V6GTO]

DanH said:

Think I may have the DS2500s on the M12 already as I remember Andy getting them.

Dan...was there anything he DIDN'T play with?
Martin.

[DanH]

V6GTO said:

DanH said: Think I may have the DS2500s on the M12 already as I remember Andy getting them. Dan...was there anything he DIDN'T play with? Martin.

No I think he probably upgraded about everything Which is nice for me! I've already started fiddling though, had the seat rails extended for gf & had linkage adjusted (much better, but throw is a bit too long forward and not enough backwards now).

[GregE240]

joust said:

Ironically the bigger the car the more it would move the concrete, and hence the -G would be less, and hence you have intrisically a better chance of survival -who said SUV's were all bad... J

Newtons Third Law then?

[V6GTO]

DanH said:

had the seat rails extended for gf .

I put a block on that from day one. I took Debbie round a few bends without slowing down and she swore there and then she'd never drive it. My plan worked!
Martin.

[DanH]

V6GTO said:

DanH said: had the seat rails extended for gf . I put a block on that from day one. I took Debbie round a few bends without slowing down and she swore there and then she'd never drive it. My plan worked! Martin.

My gf splits the car bills with me

[V6GTO]

SO?

[m12_nathan]

DanH said:

My gf splits the car bills with me

How on earth did you manage to swing that!

[DanH]

V6GTO said:

SO?

So many toys needed, so little money. Every little bit helps!

Nathan - got her trained up on the Elise! At least by having her drive the car shes less likely to expect me to not own a nice car should kids occur.

[Ash GTO 3R]

My old 135R suffered from brake fade on track days, granted, I use them hard, and I am a last minute braker.

13th Nov, doing a track day, will let you know how they hold up in comparrison.