Discussion
Was talking to a local TVR (chimera) owner about his chim, which he got from Dream Machines, PX'd by its origional owner who picked up a yellow cerb a few months ago.
To cut a long story short, he was telling me the cerberas 400bhp is not comparable to our rover V8 (mine clocked at 254bhp) power.
The owner wrecked the cerb within 20-30 minutes of ownership, and within 1 hour it was back at dream machines.
Im keen to hear thoughts (and stories?) which shed light on how much more different (difficult?) to handle the new more powerful TVR's can be than the older ones.
To cut a long story short, he was telling me the cerberas 400bhp is not comparable to our rover V8 (mine clocked at 254bhp) power.
The owner wrecked the cerb within 20-30 minutes of ownership, and within 1 hour it was back at dream machines.
Im keen to hear thoughts (and stories?) which shed light on how much more different (difficult?) to handle the new more powerful TVR's can be than the older ones.
The power delivery on a Cerbera is unlike anything I've ever driven and completely different to the Rover V8, in that in comes on song long after the RV8 would have hit the redline.
But 400bhp is 400bhp in anyone's money - unless of course the figures have been inflated a little by the factory
But 400bhp is 400bhp in anyone's money - unless of course the figures have been inflated a little by the factory
1. Unless it's a 4.5 RR, there's very, very little chance a Cerb'll see 400BHP. 320-360 regardless of whether it's a 4.2/4.5, more like
2. Having owned a Cerb, and a Tuscan, and having a Chim as a courtesy car every time I've taken either in for a service or repairs (that makes for LOTS of Chim driving), the later cars are much, much faster at high speed. Initial acceleration's fairly comparable though, due to...
3. Torque and BHP are different things. Low-down torque is much better on the old RV8s, and makes for the similar low-speed acceleration (that and (in)ability to get traction)
4. Sold my Cerb to a guy that had a Griff 500. He'd crashed the Cerb (only lightly, mind) before he'd even got it home by overcooking it.
2. Having owned a Cerb, and a Tuscan, and having a Chim as a courtesy car every time I've taken either in for a service or repairs (that makes for LOTS of Chim driving), the later cars are much, much faster at high speed. Initial acceleration's fairly comparable though, due to...
3. Torque and BHP are different things. Low-down torque is much better on the old RV8s, and makes for the similar low-speed acceleration (that and (in)ability to get traction)
4. Sold my Cerb to a guy that had a Griff 500. He'd crashed the Cerb (only lightly, mind) before he'd even got it home by overcooking it.
Black Tie & JSG said:Forvive me if I misread, but you're not saying low down acceleration is better on a RV8 than a cerb, are you?
Low-down torque is much better on the old RV8s, and makes for the similar low-speed acceleration (that and (in)ability to get traction)
What springs to mind is a drag strip video (craig maybe?) in which the cerb seems to... accelerate slowly off the mark, I thought he did it on purpose, but then (with crowd cheering) really get going higher up the rev range. Black Tie & JSG said:Overcooked as in he just went too fast? What was it that he couldnt handle?
Sold my Cerb to a guy that had a Griff 500. He'd crashed the Cerb (only lightly, mind) before he'd even got it home by overcooking it.
So many questions
ukbob said:Lake moved from a Griff 500 to a Cerbera and found the Griff has a lot more pull down there and on the road I've seen Griffs out-pull Cerberas.
Low-down torque is much better on the old RV8s, and makes for the similar low-speed acceleration (that and (in)ability to get traction)
Forvive me if I misread, but you're not saying low down acceleration is better on a RV8 than a cerb, are you?
I presume the Cerbera picks up after a few seconds though so it can make the sub 4s 0-60 blast.
It could also be that you have to really be viscious to the Cerbera to get that kind of acceleration while its easier to do with an RV8.
Tripps said:Interesting, I had not idea the RV8's would be even close 0-30 than the cerbera. Why is the cerb not so fast low down, comparitively? And would a RR cerbera be quicker to 30 than a fast griff 500?
Lake moved from a Griff 500 to a Cerbera and found the Griff has a lot more pull down there and on the road I've seen Griffs out-pull Cerberas.
I presume the Cerbera picks up after a few seconds though so it can make the sub 4s 0-60 blast.
It could also be that you have to really be viscious to the Cerbera to get that kind of acceleration while its easier to do with an RV8.
What about the Tuscan S, would that be the same 0-30 as a RR cerbera? I remember reading that a cerb pulls like a train through all the gears, but dont recollect reading (or hearing about) the cerb not being as brutal off the mark.
ukbob said:
Forvive me if I misread, but you're not saying low down acceleration is better on a RV8 than a cerb, are you?
I'm saying low-down torque is better - Doesn't necessarily equate to acceleration though... in any modern Tiv, you'll get wheelspin in 1st & 2nd, right? Which means that up to X mph, you've got more power than you can put down. So low speed acceleration is up to how you can get that power down... how grippy the tyres are, weight distribution, etc. I'd say that it's easier to get the power down in an RV8 engined car, though. When the Cerb comes on cam at 4K RPM or so, all hell breaks loose, and it's not the easiest thing to judge what's "just right"/"too much" power. By the time you're above 60mph, you can have the S6/AJP engined cars running at 4K RPM+ where their real power comes from, and where the older cars can't keep up. Which is why 0-60 times on all Tivs are the same, but 0-100s/0-150s are different.
All my personal opinion, of course.
ukbob said:
Overcooked as in he just went too fast? What was it that he couldnt handle?
No real details. Clearly it had more power/less grip than he was expecting. And it was grippy... I'd expect it to have been the magic that happens above 4K RPM; that's where things really feel different.
aside from the cerb debate ( my boss used to have one and yes, you have to be aggressive to get a good launch ), the t350 and tamora are, IMO much easier for Joe Bloggs to get off the line and drive without getting into too much bother.
boot a RV8 car too hard low down and you're off the road, if you don't know what to expect, whereas the SP6 engines wind up - in a very good way.
makes them far more driveable IMO ( but i shan't be getting one with my money ).
both the Tam and T350 handle well, brake well and go well - think big elise ( S1 that is ).
boot a RV8 car too hard low down and you're off the road, if you don't know what to expect, whereas the SP6 engines wind up - in a very good way.
makes them far more driveable IMO ( but i shan't be getting one with my money ).
both the Tam and T350 handle well, brake well and go well - think big elise ( S1 that is ).
Thanks for the informative replies, I've got a much better picture now
Where does the power end in a cerbera (and other newer TVR's) on the rev rangs.
I might be wrong, but I think the RV8's most usable power is up to 5200 or similar(?) My V8S redlines around 6k. I seem to remember Jools saying whilst tracking his V8S, he shifts up around 4k but I could be wrong again.
Was the cerbera designed to give max power at 4k, if so, why?
Where does the power end in a cerbera (and other newer TVR's) on the rev rangs.
I might be wrong, but I think the RV8's most usable power is up to 5200 or similar(?) My V8S redlines around 6k. I seem to remember Jools saying whilst tracking his V8S, he shifts up around 4k but I could be wrong again.
Was the cerbera designed to give max power at 4k, if so, why?
I found the Tamora to be an absolute joy to drive, combined with the S6 it was very easy going experience compared to some of the older cars. Once I'd got used to the floor-hinged pedal you could really have some fun without having to get used to it in the same way as some of the other cars. Then again, my Cerbera is a lot easier to drive than my S3 was, although you have to be more careful with your right foot though.
ukbob said:e-mail is down for now, Ted has tucked it into bed with a hot water bottle and a spoon of horlicks, after a little nap it should hopefully feel better.
Max power in a Cerb is at around 7k. 
Tripps, YHM
edited to say... actually you dont, PH is returning a config error
Will send you a message to reply to.
Black Tie & JSG said:
1. Unless it's a 4.5 RR, there's very, very little chance a Cerb'll see 400BHP. 320-360 regardless of whether it's a 4.2/4.5, more like
.
See my post here www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134520&f=6&h=0
He did start off with about 350bhp but Austec have him up to a healthy 410bhp today and no Red Rose in sight
njw 77 said:
Black Tie & JSG said:
1. Unless it's a 4.5 RR, there's very, very little chance a Cerb'll see 400BHP. 320-360 regardless of whether it's a 4.2/4.5, more like
.
See my post here <a href="http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134520&f=6&h=0">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134520&f=6&h=0</a>
He did start off with about 350bhp but Austec have him up to a healthy 410bhp today and no Red Rose in sight
Show off!
Don't think it counts if the engine's been under the surgeon's knife... was meaning factory spec. >> Edited by BT&J_S_G on Wednesday 3rd November 19:46
ukbob said:
Where does the power end in a cerbera (and other newer TVR's) on the rev rangs.
I might be wrong, but I think the RV8's most usable power is up to 5200 or similar(?) My V8S redlines around 6k. I seem to remember Jools saying whilst tracking his V8S, he shifts up around 4k but I could be wrong again.
Was the cerbera designed to give max power at 4k, if so, why?
Always changed up in the RV8s at about 4K or so. Having never had one for more than a few days at a time, I've no idea where you SHOULD be changing up, and I had no intention of thrashing them. Thought textbook peak power was 5.5K?
In the Tuscan, I'll hit 7K on change-up in every gear when "pressing on". In the Cerb, I tended to change up more like 6.5K when hoofing it.
Having max power higher up the rev range makes it easier to put the power down/potter around town. Bit annoying having to down-change to keep it in the power-band when beginning a sprint, though.
all afternoon 
simpo two said:
the later cars are much, much faster at high speed.
Er- yep!
I'll take low-down RV8 torque any day - that's where you need it, unless you're on a track, which I'm not.
You're not going fast enough! Found the 4 litre Chims in particular to run out of puff at 100 or so, comparatively.
Tripps, re: the griffs that beat cerbs off the line, was was it likey that
1) the cerb wasnt one of the fastest ones
2) The griffs perhaps were fast, (5.0)?
3) The point being most cerbs surely cant be slower than most 4.0 RV8s 0-30?
Im hoping to upgrade one day as you know just dont like the idea (or cant get my head around) ... or maybe as someone pointed out torque doesnt equal acceleration... when I do upgrade, Im surely going to get an equal or faster acceleration 0-30 than my Rover V8 V8S? Thats what Im thinking/why Im asking.
Assuming of course I could drive both equally well, and had the skill to make use of whatever low down power both of them had.
1) the cerb wasnt one of the fastest ones
2) The griffs perhaps were fast, (5.0)?
3) The point being most cerbs surely cant be slower than most 4.0 RV8s 0-30?
Im hoping to upgrade one day as you know
just dont like the idea (or cant get my head around) ... or maybe as someone pointed out torque doesnt equal acceleration... when I do upgrade, Im surely going to get an equal or faster acceleration 0-30 than my Rover V8 V8S? Thats what Im thinking/why Im asking. Assuming of course I could drive both equally well, and had the skill to make use of whatever low down power both of them had.
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