You were a learner driver once too (bit of a rant!)
Discussion
Where we live is a VERY popular area for learners - the local test centre is noted for being steep-hill and dual-carriageway free which people like.
I hate to be the guy who 'writes a letter of complaint' but I think it may be time - because it's actually becoming impossible to get anywhere due to the STAGGERING number of L Drivers - it's also getting to be a bit life-threatening at times.
A few examples...
Dark night, raining, residential street and a learner is trying a parallel park - they're blocking the ENTIRE road and not moving. No way around them so after a few mins (felt like a long time to me) I get out of the car to ask if they might get lost but before I can do that, the instructor tells me to 'f
k off' - hey ho!
Daytime, on-foot, about to cross road - there's a learner parked on my side, instructor is staring at his phone, learner staring into distance. I start to cross the the learner pulls-away without indicating - I leap backwards to avoid being run down - instructor is still fiddling with this phone as they pass me.
I frequently go out to find out car being used for parallel parking - I don't mind so much except that in one case I was already in it and indicating to pull away when they stopped - erm - how unobservant can you get??
Last month, a learner turned-into a street I was waiting to turn right out-of - narrowly missed me but drove straight into a parked car instead (good and yet bad at the same time!)
Twice in the last year I've come across learners who've actually run-into each other!
Onto those you can add ENDLESS delays behind repeat stallers and 'over 20mph my organs may explode' types - often convoys of them - and I'm a bit tired of it...
I know, I know - "you were a learner once" and it's true, I was. Thing is, there were maybe 8 driving instructors in the town in-total back then wheras I've counted 8 L cars in our street at the same time recently - they often QUEUE to use a corner or a parked car FFS
Can the local authority even do anything about this - can they limit licences or anything like that?
Is there someone you can complain to about specific instructors (the idiot with the phone in particular)?
I know - grumpy grumpy but they're here 7 days a week, dawn til 10pm, rain shine and even snow sometimes! - it's out-of-hand I think!?
No?
I hate to be the guy who 'writes a letter of complaint' but I think it may be time - because it's actually becoming impossible to get anywhere due to the STAGGERING number of L Drivers - it's also getting to be a bit life-threatening at times.
A few examples...
Dark night, raining, residential street and a learner is trying a parallel park - they're blocking the ENTIRE road and not moving. No way around them so after a few mins (felt like a long time to me) I get out of the car to ask if they might get lost but before I can do that, the instructor tells me to 'f
k off' - hey ho!Daytime, on-foot, about to cross road - there's a learner parked on my side, instructor is staring at his phone, learner staring into distance. I start to cross the the learner pulls-away without indicating - I leap backwards to avoid being run down - instructor is still fiddling with this phone as they pass me.
I frequently go out to find out car being used for parallel parking - I don't mind so much except that in one case I was already in it and indicating to pull away when they stopped - erm - how unobservant can you get??
Last month, a learner turned-into a street I was waiting to turn right out-of - narrowly missed me but drove straight into a parked car instead (good and yet bad at the same time!)
Twice in the last year I've come across learners who've actually run-into each other!
Onto those you can add ENDLESS delays behind repeat stallers and 'over 20mph my organs may explode' types - often convoys of them - and I'm a bit tired of it...
I know, I know - "you were a learner once" and it's true, I was. Thing is, there were maybe 8 driving instructors in the town in-total back then wheras I've counted 8 L cars in our street at the same time recently - they often QUEUE to use a corner or a parked car FFS
Can the local authority even do anything about this - can they limit licences or anything like that?
Is there someone you can complain to about specific instructors (the idiot with the phone in particular)?
I know - grumpy grumpy but they're here 7 days a week, dawn til 10pm, rain shine and even snow sometimes! - it's out-of-hand I think!?
No?
Edited by 405dogvan on Tuesday 22 October 22:27
I used to "work" with a lot of ADI's when I did the IAM stuff.
What you are writing was a very common complaint, and one they took seriously.
Find your local driving instructor association, they'd be a good place to start, they are aware of what a nuisance they can be and will hopefully take steps to reduce the problems you are having.
What you are writing was a very common complaint, and one they took seriously.
Find your local driving instructor association, they'd be a good place to start, they are aware of what a nuisance they can be and will hopefully take steps to reduce the problems you are having.
Funny you should mention about your own car being used for parallel parking practice. It would appear that a number of the branded (not mum/dad in the passenger seat) cars have taken to using a couple of supermarket carparks near where I live to help the learners in parking practice.
Came out of Sainsbury the other week to find one of them teaching a lad to reverse park between an Audi R8 to their left and a 13 reg Focus ST to their right - absolute madness considering the value of both cars if he was to make a mistake. However I've also noticed the security staff tend to take a dim view of them doing it and do seem to appear every now & again and move them on
I always wonder whether the instructor would own up to damaging other cars if the worse was to happen - i'm guessing most probably wouldn't nowadays
ETA - I still remember driving home on my 6th lesson back in '07, pulling into the drive of the house I lived in at the time, but doing so a bit too tightly and rubbing the back bumper of the neighbours car
Although they shouldn't have left it slightly hanging over our drive, I went next door immediately pointed out what i'd done and made sure I paid for the paintwork damage out of my next few wages from my Saturday job to pay for my error
Came out of Sainsbury the other week to find one of them teaching a lad to reverse park between an Audi R8 to their left and a 13 reg Focus ST to their right - absolute madness considering the value of both cars if he was to make a mistake. However I've also noticed the security staff tend to take a dim view of them doing it and do seem to appear every now & again and move them on
I always wonder whether the instructor would own up to damaging other cars if the worse was to happen - i'm guessing most probably wouldn't nowadays
ETA - I still remember driving home on my 6th lesson back in '07, pulling into the drive of the house I lived in at the time, but doing so a bit too tightly and rubbing the back bumper of the neighbours car
Although they shouldn't have left it slightly hanging over our drive, I went next door immediately pointed out what i'd done and made sure I paid for the paintwork damage out of my next few wages from my Saturday job to pay for my error Edited by AlexRS2782 on Tuesday 22 October 22:49
My manor is also a hot spot for driving schools and I too am often sick of it
I dont think we're test territory but as the roads are quiet we definitely get selected for the novices first few hesitant lessons if speed relative to a 3 legged tortoise correlates with inexperience
As a bleeding heart liberal (currently inactive - well done Cleggy) I try and be patient but most of my neighbours are just fed up and if a new driver is doing a 3 point turn will usually just razz past during the manoeuvre if its obviously taking aaaaaages - and TBH I can see why
Its every bloody day
Maybe I'll make an angry phone call tomorrow - but more likely one of my neighbours will lose the plot and take matters into their own hands
The staff car park (or public overflow car park) where I work is a bit of a favourite for learning to "bay park". I came out of work the other day to find two learners performing the same manoeuvre at the same time, a few spaces away from each other. I sat in the car and had Murray Walker-esque commentary going in my head as I watched them "race" 
OP - you can complain to the Driving Standards Agency who regulate driving instructors about the ones using phones etc however they are generally as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Have you tried contacting your local test centre? If your area is one used for driving tests, you can hardly blame the instructors for ensuring their pupils are well versed with the area. Find out if it's used for test routes and ask if it can be removed. If you get a decent TCM (Test Centre Manager), ask him to put a sign in the waiting room asking instructors to stay away. If it's as bad as you say I'm sure there will have been complaints made before so don't expect this to make much difference.
The council have no authority to limit the number of instructors in a particular area - unfortunately.
It's worth mentioning that some of the 'bad instructors' you see, may actually be driving examiners simply observing the candidate fail spectacularly!
Just to let you know, instructors will hardly ever practice parallel parking around a car that is parked half on the kerb. Obviously this is illegal and may cause an obstruction to pedestrians so I wouldn't suggest you employ this tactic.
Edited to add- you should report driving instructors using the phone etc to the police, they can at least keep an eye out for them, and stop them to check their ADI badges are in order.
The council have no authority to limit the number of instructors in a particular area - unfortunately.
It's worth mentioning that some of the 'bad instructors' you see, may actually be driving examiners simply observing the candidate fail spectacularly!
Just to let you know, instructors will hardly ever practice parallel parking around a car that is parked half on the kerb. Obviously this is illegal and may cause an obstruction to pedestrians so I wouldn't suggest you employ this tactic.
Edited to add- you should report driving instructors using the phone etc to the police, they can at least keep an eye out for them, and stop them to check their ADI badges are in order.
Edited by Distant on Wednesday 23 October 00:05
AlexRS2782 said:
Funny you should mention about your own car being used for parallel parking practice. It would appear that a number of the branded (not mum/dad in the passenger seat) cars have taken to using a couple of supermarket carparks near where I live to help the learners in parking practice.
Came out of Sainsbury the other week to find one of them teaching a lad to reverse park between an Audi R8 to their left and a 13 reg Focus ST to their right - absolute madness considering the value of both cars if he was to make a mistake. However I've also noticed the security staff tend to take a dim view of them doing it and do seem to appear every now & again and move them on
I always wonder whether the instructor would own up to damaging other cars if the worse was to happen - i'm guessing most probably wouldn't nowadays
As a professional driving instructor, it is my job to make sure the pupil stays safe and doesn't damage themselves, anyone else, their property or my car which I rely on to earn a living. There is no chance a decent ADI would let a pupil crash their car into anything, no matter how valuable!Came out of Sainsbury the other week to find one of them teaching a lad to reverse park between an Audi R8 to their left and a 13 reg Focus ST to their right - absolute madness considering the value of both cars if he was to make a mistake. However I've also noticed the security staff tend to take a dim view of them doing it and do seem to appear every now & again and move them on
I always wonder whether the instructor would own up to damaging other cars if the worse was to happen - i'm guessing most probably wouldn't nowadays
I've practiced parking around a new Aston Martin Vantage before now. My feet didn't move too far from the dual controls for that one!
numtumfutunch said:
My manor is also a hot spot for driving schools and I too am often sick of it
I dont think we're test territory but as the roads are quiet we definitely get selected for the novices first few hesitant lessons if speed relative to a 3 legged tortoise correlates with inexperience
As a bleeding heart liberal (currently inactive - well done Cleggy) I try and be patient but most of my neighbours are just fed up and if a new driver is doing a 3 point turn will usually just razz past during the manoeuvre if its obviously taking aaaaaages - and TBH I can see why
Its every bloody day
Maybe I'll make an angry phone call tomorrow - but more likely one of my neighbours will lose the plot and take matters into their own hands
I don't know what your town is like, but where I teach there is only one estate that is suitable for the first few lessons. That is: quiet, fairly wide roads, not lined with parked cars so pulling over is easy(er!), flat, and isn't full of dead ends. One estate, that's it! I'm sure the residents get fed up with us, I try my best to stay out of the way, acknowledge their patience and limit the time we spend there once the pupil is capable of driving elsewhere.I dont think we're test territory but as the roads are quiet we definitely get selected for the novices first few hesitant lessons if speed relative to a 3 legged tortoise correlates with inexperience
As a bleeding heart liberal (currently inactive - well done Cleggy) I try and be patient but most of my neighbours are just fed up and if a new driver is doing a 3 point turn will usually just razz past during the manoeuvre if its obviously taking aaaaaages - and TBH I can see why
Its every bloody day
Maybe I'll make an angry phone call tomorrow - but more likely one of my neighbours will lose the plot and take matters into their own hands
I've tried explaining this to the odd resident that's had words, if there was somewhere else suitable, I'd be there like a shot. I don't want to drive round the same few roads all day, just as they don't want to watch me doing it!
Distant said:
I don't know what your town is like, but where I teach there is only one estate that is suitable for the first few lessons. That is: quiet, fairly wide roads, not lined with parked cars so pulling over is easy(er!), flat, and isn't full of dead ends. One estate, that's it! I'm sure the residents get fed up with us, I try my best to stay out of the way, acknowledge their patience and limit the time we spend there once the pupil is capable of driving elsewhere.
I've tried explaining this to the odd resident that's had words, if there was somewhere else suitable, I'd be there like a shot. I don't want to drive round the same few roads all day, just as they don't want to watch me doing it!
Norham Road/Gardens and Fyfield road? I live here and can you please all fI've tried explaining this to the odd resident that's had words, if there was somewhere else suitable, I'd be there like a shot. I don't want to drive round the same few roads all day, just as they don't want to watch me doing it!
k off?Edit: judging by your website, you don't teach in Oxford. But it'd be great if you could pass the message on.
Edited by Disco You on Wednesday 23 October 00:16
Disco You said:
Distant said:
I don't know what your town is like, but where I teach there is only one estate that is suitable for the first few lessons. That is: quiet, fairly wide roads, not lined with parked cars so pulling over is easy(er!), flat, and isn't full of dead ends. One estate, that's it! I'm sure the residents get fed up with us, I try my best to stay out of the way, acknowledge their patience and limit the time we spend there once the pupil is capable of driving elsewhere.
I've tried explaining this to the odd resident that's had words, if there was somewhere else suitable, I'd be there like a shot. I don't want to drive round the same few roads all day, just as they don't want to watch me doing it!
Norham Road/Gardens and Fyfield road? I live here and can you please all fI've tried explaining this to the odd resident that's had words, if there was somewhere else suitable, I'd be there like a shot. I don't want to drive round the same few roads all day, just as they don't want to watch me doing it!
k off?Edit: judging by your website, you don't teach in Oxford. But it'd be great if you could pass the message on.
Edited by Disco You on Wednesday 23 October 00:16
Blame the test centres sticking to certain routes. Where I did my test in Edinburgh (Joppa) I feel sorry for anyone who lives in that area as it must be sodding nightmare for you. In an ideal world we would have somewhere for learners to practice the basics off the road at a centre. I was lucky growing up on a farm learning to drive on our land and round the yard, once you can park a combine harvester in a space not much bigger than it you can park anything. Local go kart tracks outdoor place was also a wonder for learning car control, although I admit my driving as a normal person sucks most of the time as years of gokarts and combines dont always translate well for normal people on the road.
Would "American Style" mini practice areas be useful for the 1st few lessons- the ones which are a big go-kart track with junctions and the like?
They could do basic car control and parking/reversing etc to their hearts content before going out into the real world to deal with magic roundabouts and tractors.
They could do basic car control and parking/reversing etc to their hearts content before going out into the real world to deal with magic roundabouts and tractors.
I followed a Leaner doing 25mph for about 4 miles in a 50/60mph zone the other evening.
Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
dave7692 said:
I followed a Leaner doing 25mph for about 4 miles in a 50/60mph zone the other evening.
Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
I see this a lot. There is no way the bloke that taught me to drive would tolerate me creeping along in a 60 and anything less than 45 - 50. As I've gotten older and driven more I appreciate how good he was more and more!Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
dme123 said:
I see this a lot. There is no way the bloke that taught me to drive would tolerate me creeping along in a 60 and anything less than 45 - 50. As I've gotten older and driven more I appreciate how good he was more and more!
My old man was a driving instructor. He said that it's a fail if your going too slowly. Think they call it something like not making due progress. He'd always be on at people to speed up. (not me mind 
)dave7692 said:
I followed a Leaner doing 25mph for about 4 miles in a 50/60mph zone the other evening.
Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
Because they're fed up of the grief they get from residents on the quiet estates?Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
/devilsadvocate
dave7692 said:
I followed a Leaner doing 25mph for about 4 miles in a 50/60mph zone the other evening.
Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
When I was learning to drive we had to go along a major trunk road (A75). If my speed dropped to 55mph the instructor would tell me to speed back up to 60. Even on my first leason he had me driving around 40mph on a quiet back road.Now I appreciate that we all have to learn but if they clearly aren't yet comfortable with achieving anything over 30 why is their instructor dragging them out on higher speed roads. I don't blame the kid but the instructor is clearly to blame, as I then followed them through town they proceeded to almost write off the car at a roundabout too, then stall it, this student was obviously very new to driving and I don't think the instructor had made allowances for it.
Someone mentioned earlier about using purpose built areas to learn the basics before being let loose on the roads. Brilliant idea but probably wouldn't work with lack of available land in some areas and a low volume of pupils in others. Would like it to be a vaiable option though.
I had to beep at a learner the other day, and whilst part of me hoped he wasnt on his test as it's a fail (I got beeped at on my first test for not leaving enough room - instant fail), he bloody deserved it!
As others, I try and be patient, or just overtake as and when, but I was indicating left to turn left, my right of way etc and the learner was turning right. Rather than wait for me (I was pretty much ontop of the turning) he just dived over, causing me to almost emergency stop. Instructor flipped the bird at me too, so I proceeded to note his number down and fire off a strong email to the company. May have sat behind them flashing constantly for a bit before we both turned onto a dual carriageway, where I put my foot down and left them behind.
Sure I remember during my lessons my instructor saying (after the first few) that if you can't drive to the conditions (fast in that case) then you need more lessons on quieter roads. Is that still being taught? Or did I just have a good instructor?
As others, I try and be patient, or just overtake as and when, but I was indicating left to turn left, my right of way etc and the learner was turning right. Rather than wait for me (I was pretty much ontop of the turning) he just dived over, causing me to almost emergency stop. Instructor flipped the bird at me too, so I proceeded to note his number down and fire off a strong email to the company. May have sat behind them flashing constantly for a bit before we both turned onto a dual carriageway, where I put my foot down and left them behind.
Sure I remember during my lessons my instructor saying (after the first few) that if you can't drive to the conditions (fast in that case) then you need more lessons on quieter roads. Is that still being taught? Or did I just have a good instructor?
AlexRS2782 said:
Came out of Sainsbury the other week to find one of them teaching a lad to reverse park between an Audi R8 to their left and a 13 reg Focus ST to their right - absolute madness considering the value of both cars if he was to make a mistake.
Surely better to ding an expensive car where the insurance will pay out with no fuss, than ding an older car where claiming to get it fixed could write the car off. My old wagon is unbelievably straight for it's age, but if someone dings it, it would be impossible to claim for a repair due to it being almost worthless in the insurance company's eyes, so I'd have to pay to get it sorted out of my own pocket.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff