alleded speeding ticket

[sjp63]

It's a long story, but I got a ticket through the post for speeding on the M4. I wrote back saying that the journey was a 8 hour round trip in a day and there were 2 of us taking turns (all true). They sent me the photo as requested but it was from the back and of no use identifying the driver. They wrote back saying never mind if you don't tell us which one was driving when the picture was taken within 7 days we will submit papers to the CPS for an offence of failure to provide the details of the driver.

Questions:-
1)What are the odds of the CPS taking me to court?
2)Does the offence carry a worst penalty than the original speeding ticket?

Any advise or experience of this?



>>> Edited by sjp63 on Wednesday 3rd November 09:45

>>> Edited by sjp63 on Wednesday 3rd November 09:51

[parrot of doom]

www.pepipoo.com

Maximum penalty for s172 is 3 points and £1000 fine, although it might not get to that should you follow the advice in the above link.

[Streetcop]

it's a gamble.......

too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'...

Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here....

Street

[havoc]

As I understood it, the underlying principle behind UK law was the "presumption of innocence". Street - can you confirm that this HAS, in fact, been rescinded for traffic offences?

I ask because in this situation, without a fantastic memory, the owner wouldn't have a scooby of knowing who was driving...therefore any prosecution would only have a 50/50 chance of getting the right person...even on a "balance of probabilities" prosecution, 50/50 wouldn't wash for other crimes...so what makes traffic offences so reprehensible and dangerous to society that they should be prosecuted so harshly. If I committed GBH, for example, it would have to be "beyond reasonable doubt", after all. Ditto for burglary.

[Streetcop]

traffic offences have always been...absolute offences, with more burden on the defence to disprove things.....

[havoc]

Interesting...we keep hearing how the CPS drop cases through lack of evidence, or some similar twaddle. Yet for traffic offences, not being able to identify the offender DOESN'T COUNT as a lack of evidence.

I know I'm pointing out old, well-debated inconsistencies, but it's these inconsistencies that are impacting negatively on potentially innocent members of the public.

[lunarscope]

Streetcop said:

it's a gamble....... too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'... Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here.... Street

Yep, that was me. BTW, I wasn't a 'dont knower' as I identified myself, complete with name, address and driver number. I simply didn't sign the form and the Police were too lazy to question me under a PACE caution. (silly me, PACE is applicable only to rapists, robbers, murders, child molesters, violent thugs, fraudsters... ad infinitum.)
Of course, in my home turf of North Wales, PACE would spoil their new system of preprinted statements (complete with signature) that aren't even seen by the BiB who supposedly made the statement.

[bluepolarbear]

havoc said:

As I understood it, the underlying principle behind UK law was the "presumption of innocence". Street - can you confirm that this HAS, in fact, been rescinded for traffic offences?

People need to wake up and smell the roses. "Presumption of innocence", "right to silence", "trial by jury", "freedom from state intrusion" have all gone / going by the wayside. We have second rate MPs, a second rate justice system and (at least at the top) a second rate police force

[Streetcop]

lunarscope said:

Streetcop said: it's a gamble....... too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'... Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here.... Street Yep, that was me. BTW, I wasn't a 'dont knower' as I identified myself, complete with name, address and driver number. I simply didn't sign the form and the Police were too lazy to question me under a PACE caution. (silly me, PACE is applicable only to rapists, robbers, murders, child molesters, violent thugs, fraudsters... ad infinitum.)

Yep...I agree with you......

It's about time..there was really a detterent for criminals....it used to be the worry of getting a good shoeing back at the nick...but middle England has taken that away and the nonsence Magistrates don't seem to be tough enough...

Still....mustn't grumle...

Street

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

lunarscope said: Streetcop said: it's a gamble....... too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'... Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here.... Street Yep, that was me. BTW, I wasn't a 'dont knower' as I identified myself, complete with name, address and driver number. I simply didn't sign the form and the Police were too lazy to question me under a PACE caution. (silly me, PACE is applicable only to rapists, robbers, murders, child molesters, violent thugs, fraudsters... ad infinitum.) Yep...I agree with you...... It's about time..there was really a detterent for criminals....it used to be the worry of getting a good shoeing back at the nick...but middle England has taken that away and the nonsence Magistrates don't seem to be tough enough... Still....mustn't grumle... Street

For goodness sake, StreetCop, you can't genuinely believe that kicking someone's head in at the station is, or ever was, a good way of administering justice?

I'm all for corporal and capital punishment (and birching for that matter) but that is AFTER people have been convicted.

BiB dispensing justice in this fashion is bang out of order! Ever heard of miscarriages of justice?


>> Edited by ca092003 on Wednesday 3rd November 18:03

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

Streetcop said: lunarscope said: Streetcop said: it's a gamble....... too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'... Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here.... Street Yep, that was me. BTW, I wasn't a 'dont knower' as I identified myself, complete with name, address and driver number. I simply didn't sign the form and the Police were too lazy to question me under a PACE caution. (silly me, PACE is applicable only to rapists, robbers, murders, child molesters, violent thugs, fraudsters... ad infinitum.) Yep...I agree with you...... It's about time..there was really a detterent for criminals....it used to be the worry of getting a good shoeing back at the nick...but middle England has taken that away and the nonsence Magistrates don't seem to be tough enough... Still....mustn't grumle... Street For goodness sake, StreetCop, you can't genuinely believe that kicking someone's head in at the station is, or ever was, a good way of administering justice? I'm all for corporal and capital punishment (and birching for that matter) but that is AFTER people have been convicted. BiB dispensing justice in this fashion is bang out of order! Ever heard of miscarriages of justice? >> Edited by ca092003 on Wednesday 3rd November 18:03

It's what everybody who is a victim of a crime or who feels unsafe to go out at night tells me what should happen.....

Lefty liberals like you, no doubt think the current hoards of unruly anti-social teenagers are a good thing, no doubt....

I suppose you're all for the current anti-smacking of children arguement also...

You keep turning that cheek...I hope it makes you feel better..

Do you swat the fly that lands on you, or do you let it walk all over you

Street

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

ca092003 said: Streetcop said: lunarscope said: Streetcop said: it's a gamble....... too many people, who did know who was driving, have spoiled it for genuine 'dont knowers'... Look at the recent 3 points and £750 fine that we heard about on here.... Street Yep, that was me. BTW, I wasn't a 'dont knower' as I identified myself, complete with name, address and driver number. I simply didn't sign the form and the Police were too lazy to question me under a PACE caution. (silly me, PACE is applicable only to rapists, robbers, murders, child molesters, violent thugs, fraudsters... ad infinitum.) Yep...I agree with you...... It's about time..there was really a detterent for criminals....it used to be the worry of getting a good shoeing back at the nick...but middle England has taken that away and the nonsence Magistrates don't seem to be tough enough... Still....mustn't grumle... Street For goodness sake, StreetCop, you can't genuinely believe that kicking someone's head in at the station is, or ever was, a good way of administering justice? I'm all for corporal and capital punishment (and birching for that matter) but that is AFTER people have been convicted. BiB dispensing justice in this fashion is bang out of order! Ever heard of miscarriages of justice? >> Edited by ca092003 on Wednesday 3rd November 18:03 It's what everybody who is a victim of a crime or who feels unsafe to go out at night tells me what should happen..... Lefty liberals like you, no doubt think the current hoards of unruly anti-social teenagers are a good thing, no doubt.... I suppose you're all for the current anti-smacking of children arguement also... You keep turning that cheek...I hope it makes you feel better.. Do you swat the fly that lands on you, or do you let it walk all over you Street

StreetCop

It just goes to show how wrong you can be.....

How have you managed to jump from a speeding driver to unruly behaviour of teenagers?

Me? A liberal? I don't think so. No-one and I mean no-one would ever accuse me of being a liberal.

Regarding smacking of children. I'm firmly in support of smacking children. Indeed, I have written to my MP on the subject and to Mary Marsh (CEO of NSPCC) to say that I profoundly disagree with her campaign to outlaw it.

I find that people who believe that parents are going to move on from smacking onto beating their child to death are invariably of the same opinion that speeding motorists are going to move on to causing major carnage on our roads.

The fact is that the vast majority of speeding is done in total safety with no one injured at all. The authorities need to concentrate on those motorists who speed inappropriately and, as I have said on many occasions, to throw the book at them!

StreetCop, you really need to open your eyes to the real world. Just because you deal with scrotes all day does not mean that the world is full of scrotes.

You have a very narrow viewpoint. One where you are right and everyone else is wrong. Well, I for one, am not afraid of your bullying tactics and your 'holier than thou' attitude. I have no problem debating with you because I consider you the exact type of Bib that this country can do without.

When things aren't going your way you introduce other factors into discussions in an attempt to deflect the discussion off into another place.

[Streetcop]

That's your opinion ca092003..not a very good one, but an opinion nevertheless

the other factors were introduced by our member lunarscope...I just jumped on the bandwagon...

If I'm the sort of BiB that the country can do without...in your words...then I don't know exactly what you expect from your BiB....as the majority of newbees are social workers who seem to care more for the feelings of the criminal than the victim...

Not me..

>> Edited by Streetcop on Wednesday 3rd November 20:05

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

That's your opinion ca092003..not a very good one, but an opinion nevertheless the other factors were introduced by our member lunarscope...I just jumped on the bandwagon... If I'm the sort of BiB that the country can do without...in your words...then I don't know exactly what you expect from your BiB....as the majority of newbees are social workers who seem to care more for the feelings of the criminal than the victim... Not me.. >> Edited by Streetcop on Wednesday 3rd November 20:05

A further illustration of your narrow thinking. How can my opinion be good or bad? It is exactly that - An opinion. Based on my understanding and research of a particular issue.

No one's opinion is right or wrong.

What do I expect from BiB?

Honesty, trust, discretion with informed opinions about relevant matters.

The social worker / liberal brigade make me sick, too.

[8Pack]

Well said ca092003. Gary, I believe that I have crossed swords with you on this very subject before. You may well feel frustrated at the lenient sentancing of known scrotes etc. as do we all, usually we, the public are the ones to suffer their attentions.

You may well, "feel the need" to take the law into your own hands, but it is NOT the right way to resolve the problem. How many times have the Police taken householders to court for GBH when they've "hit" a burglar?

Nor was it a result of "left wing" socialist polices, although they have contributed.
Mrs Thatcher was the first one to instruct the Magistrates not to send civil offenders to jail because "jail" was costing too much, and she wanted tax cuts for the rich! This was what began the rot and has been carried on by all ever since.

I'm with ca092003, It's simply NOT your job to dish out punishment and you need to take stock of your attitudes. I for one would have no sympathy if you lost your job because of it. The correct way is to restore the jail & sentancing system in this country to what it used to be.

Your system will lead us to Orwellian reality, is that what you want? South African style Police? Institutional Thuggery?



>> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 4th November 01:09