RE: A day (and 800 miles) in an RCZ: PH Blog
Friday 25th October 2013
Hands up, we've made quite a big deal about the Peugeot RCZ R. The spec is really encouraging, those developing it are proper car blokes and, from most angles at least, it looks great.
This is from 6pm Monday to 9pm Tuesday...The extensive list of modifications for the R fills us with hope too because, to be frank, the regular RCZ 200 needs them.
Stops only when very necessary!Unfortunately a combination of detail flaws do their best to destroy your goodwill. The clutch is set too high, which buddies up with a very long gearbox throw to make changes far more awkward than they need to be. On 19s and away from the autoroute, the chassis thumps through minor undulations uncomfortably. And the steering , whilst accurate and geared quite nicely, just doesn't offer much back through the rim.
Standard car not brilliant; could this be?And yet, even after our epic adventure, the RCZ annoys more than it pleases. Which is especially frustrating when the fundamentals seem OK.
A day (and 800 miles) in an RCZ: PH Blog
The best way to get familiar with Peugeot's coupe? To Paris and back, of course
This is from 6pm Monday to 9pm Tuesday...
Having not driven an RCZ previously and with the R launch just a few weeks away, the Peugeot Sport rendezvous seemed like a perfect opportunity to get acquainted with the standard car. As it transpired, thanks to a forgotten passport and a navigational mishap, the RCZ and I covered 879 miles in 27 hours earlier this week. Acquainted? We're practically related now!
I wanted to like the RCZ. Everyone does, don't they? The double-bubble roof, that pert little bottom, a beautiful interior and the fact it's a sub-£30K coupe that isn't from the VW group all count in its favour.
Stops only when very necessary!
These issues force your attention away from the RCZ's positives. Though the engine has been around for a while, it still spins up really sweetly and always feels punchy enough. Allied to some fairly short ratios (third is only good for about 75mph), it always feels eager in any gear. Those wheels use big tyres that offer plenty of grip too, the RCZ turning in really quickly and accurately. Even after averaging just over 30mph for more than a day, the seats were still comfortable and the interior, despite a few ergonomic gripes, still a lovely place to be.
Standard car not brilliant; could this be?
This means I'm still clawing on to some hope for the R. The steering hasn't been touched, which is concerning, but the prospect of a diff and extra power is exciting. Furthermore, with completely overhauled suspension parts and geometry, plus lighter wheels on Goodyear Eagle F1s (rather than Continentals), the assumption has to be that the ride and handling will be transformed. I hope so.
The launch is in Nice next month. I've packed my passport already.
Matt
Discussion
I rather like the look of this car.
It stands out , in a good way. It looks terrific IMO and the facelift versions simply improves things further.
However, a cousin of mine has one. It has been plagued with glitches, mostly electrical. A pretty gormless and ham-fisted local dealer is proving to be exceedingly hopeless in getting on top of the problems.
After a year of ownership he's desperate to get out.
Just one example mind you so hardly a good sample pool. Maybe others are finding it utterly reliable.
It stands out , in a good way. It looks terrific IMO and the facelift versions simply improves things further.
However, a cousin of mine has one. It has been plagued with glitches, mostly electrical. A pretty gormless and ham-fisted local dealer is proving to be exceedingly hopeless in getting on top of the problems.
After a year of ownership he's desperate to get out.
Just one example mind you so hardly a good sample pool. Maybe others are finding it utterly reliable.
I quite miss my old one! I had a 163 GT in Pearl White as a company car for 4 months, covered about 11k, and loved it to pieces!! Yes the ride is a little harsh in the 200 (the 163 didnt have the stiffer anti rollbar) but the 163 seemed to be all you needed, and a cheeky remap would have gone well.
I've always had a slight problem with the RCZ. For me it's good looks are generated by the cab forward design which says, "mid-engined, rear wheel drive" and it's always a bit of a disappointment to remind myself that's not the case.
I hope the R is so good to drive that none of that matters.
I hope the R is so good to drive that none of that matters.
kambites said:
Most reviews of the "normal" RCZ seem to sum up saying it's "a better driver's car than the Audi TT"... which could be said to be damning with faint praise. 
- Quite easy for most of the "reviewers" just to keep repeating the same drivel over and over. MK2 is meant to be very much improved (I haven't driven one), and of course they've never driven one that has been modified suspension wise or the real original MK1 without the self imposed understeering.But enough of my old man rantings. Been inside an RCZ and wouldn't swap my TT for its looks and my interior is still miles away imho. But good luck to Peugeot. We need car manufacturers that can try something different.
article said:
Furthermore, with completely overhauled suspension parts and geometry, plus lighter wheels on Goodyear Eagle F1s (rather than Continentals), the assumption has to be that the ride and handling will be transformed.
Really? The public just roam the land pointing hatefully at any car shod with Continental tyres and exclaim collectively that the simple fitment of Goodyear F1s will transform the handling?This news will be a revelation to a few manufacturers. Thank you for such scientific depth. This is a staggering conclusion after 880 miles of driving. Thank god I'm not in the market for one and looking for some actual insight.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Saturday 26th October 14:35
Got a lift in one of these last week - seemed nice from the passenger seat but the driver said he hated it and asked if I wanted a go.
We swapped I saw what he meant, a worse driving position I've not sat in for a while, I genuinely thought my left leg was going to die...
We did get plenty of attention tho - I know a TT would have been ignored completely, so common are they around here.
It does seem the Peugeot have lost the plot tho - I saw an ad for one last week that seemed to think things like 'adjustable interior lighting' was a major feature?
From a company who made their name making 'tools' which just happened to drive well, with great diesel engines in particular, this is a bit sad...
We swapped I saw what he meant, a worse driving position I've not sat in for a while, I genuinely thought my left leg was going to die...
We did get plenty of attention tho - I know a TT would have been ignored completely, so common are they around here.
It does seem the Peugeot have lost the plot tho - I saw an ad for one last week that seemed to think things like 'adjustable interior lighting' was a major feature?
From a company who made their name making 'tools' which just happened to drive well, with great diesel engines in particular, this is a bit sad...
Reardy Mister said:
Really? The public just roam the land pointing hatefully at any car shod with Continental tyres and exclaim collectively that the simple fitment of Goodyear F1s will transform the handling?
Actually in fairness I've recently been doing some development work on a vehicle where we had to replace the standard Goodyear F1's with Continentals because of time constraints and availability.It absolutely ruined it. Ride was abysmal, vague on the limit, markedly less steering feel, snatchy transition from grip to slip in the wet and noticeably less grip wet or dry. The only advantage they had was slightly more on-centre feedback which an enthusiastic driver might value.
I expected the ride, but virtually everything else was completely the opposite to what I predicted. FWIW I'm an ex Lotus vehicle dynamics engineer
Edited by The Wookie on Sunday 27th October 15:09
The Wookie said:
Reardy Mister said:
Really? The public just roam the land pointing hatefully at any car shod with Continental tyres and exclaim collectively that the simple fitment of Goodyear F1s will transform the handling?
Actually in fairness I've recently been doing some development work on a vehicle where we had to replace the standard Goodyear F1's with Continentals because of time constraints and availability.It absolutely ruined it. Ride was abysmal, vague on the limit, markedly less steering feel, snatchy transition from grip to slip in the wet and noticeably less grip wet or dry. The only advantage they had was slightly more on-centre feedback which an enthusiastic driver might value.
I expected the ride, but virtually everything else was completely the opposite to what I predicted. FWIW I'm an ex Lotus vehicle dynamics engineer
Edited by The Wookie on Sunday 27th October 15:09
Look I'm not disputing the validity of the statement in the article, only pointing out that the statement in isolation has no meaning without the kind of detail you have attached. Your post exposed the short comings of the article perfectly. Reviewers, take note.
Reardy Mister said:
Interesting. Can that be written off as a brand-wide difference in quality, or could it be the Conti was a more generic tyre than the F1 and can be expected to be inferior?
Look I'm not disputing the validity of the statement in the article, only pointing out that the statement in isolation has no meaning without the kind of detail you have attached. Your post exposed the short comings of the article perfectly. Reviewers, take note.
It's hard to tell, it's not like Continental have got a limited budget, limited facilities or are running massively different volumes (I would assume anyway), they're huge. The tyre we used was one of their top performance models so it's not like we cheaped out.Look I'm not disputing the validity of the statement in the article, only pointing out that the statement in isolation has no meaning without the kind of detail you have attached. Your post exposed the short comings of the article perfectly. Reviewers, take note.
From my experience you'll tune a vehicle's ride and handling either with a specific tyre that's been pre-selected, or with a selection of different constructions from the same manufacturer (or a small selection of manufacturers) which might be biased towards steering or ride or handling (although they might not necessarily live up to those titles!).
Perhaps that specific size of tyre is used on a particular high volume car (e.g. a Mondeo) that was tuned specifically for that tyre, and was sold in high enough volumes that Conti developed and selected the construction based on Ford's feedback, rendering it not very useful to cars of different weight/wheelbase/driven wheels/performance.
Generally speaking any car will work well on whatever it comes with as it's likely to have been tuned specifically on those tyres, or at least validated on them (if a supplier change has happened without a damper tune), but at the same time it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best tyre; some are just better all rounders than others.
Perhaps Goodyear just hit a sweet spot with that tyre, or alternatively the particular model I was driving was low enough volume that they could try a load of tyres and pick which gave them what they wanted, then tuned the vehicle further to enhance it.
The Wookie said:
Reardy Mister said:
Interesting. Can that be written off as a brand-wide difference in quality, or could it be the Conti was a more generic tyre than the F1 and can be expected to be inferior?
Look I'm not disputing the validity of the statement in the article, only pointing out that the statement in isolation has no meaning without the kind of detail you have attached. Your post exposed the short comings of the article perfectly. Reviewers, take note.
It's hard to tell, it's not like Continental have got a limited budget, limited facilities or are running massively different volumes (I would assume anyway), they're huge. The tyre we used was one of their top performance models so it's not like we cheaped out.Look I'm not disputing the validity of the statement in the article, only pointing out that the statement in isolation has no meaning without the kind of detail you have attached. Your post exposed the short comings of the article perfectly. Reviewers, take note.
From my experience you'll tune a vehicle's ride and handling either with a specific tyre that's been pre-selected, or with a selection of different constructions from the same manufacturer (or a small selection of manufacturers) which might be biased towards steering or ride or handling (although they might not necessarily live up to those titles!).
Perhaps that specific size of tyre is used on a particular high volume car (e.g. a Mondeo) that was tuned specifically for that tyre, and was sold in high enough volumes that Conti developed and selected the construction based on Ford's feedback, rendering it not very useful to cars of different weight/wheelbase/driven wheels/performance.
Generally speaking any car will work well on whatever it comes with as it's likely to have been tuned specifically on those tyres, or at least validated on them (if a supplier change has happened without a damper tune), but at the same time it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best tyre; some are just better all rounders than others.
Perhaps Goodyear just hit a sweet spot with that tyre, or alternatively the particular model I was driving was low enough volume that they could try a load of tyres and pick which gave them what they wanted, then tuned the vehicle further to enhance it.
Yes Matt, but you don't tell us which RCZ you were driving. Car Magazine has made a career of testing the wrong one , the diesel , against Audis and VWs, when it has admitted the 200bhp petrol is a far different proposition. I'm assuming the 200 model is the one you drove. I love the thing, and having run a 207 diesel for 5 years, I would have no qualms about reliability or capability of Peugeots. I spent a hour looking at the new R at Goodwood and if it goes as well as everyone hopes it should be a corker. At £32,500 tho it's way out of my league, but those seats could turn you to nefarious activities.
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