Just bought a GTM Libra!
Discussion
Well, deposit paid to hold until next weekend...
The 2005 one in the classifieds.
Current owner met me in the appalling weather this afternoon so I could look over it - actually a useful thing as it's to be my daily driver for at least 20k miles a year. Dry, warm and good visibility are all important, and the ride was superb compared to some cars I've looked at/driven over the past few years.
Few things to look at - headlight covers could do with some fettling to cut down on condensation, noticed a fairing washer was missing from one of the attachments on the rear clam, but other than that it's pretty much perfect.
Going to be a long week...
The 2005 one in the classifieds.
Current owner met me in the appalling weather this afternoon so I could look over it - actually a useful thing as it's to be my daily driver for at least 20k miles a year. Dry, warm and good visibility are all important, and the ride was superb compared to some cars I've looked at/driven over the past few years.
Few things to look at - headlight covers could do with some fettling to cut down on condensation, noticed a fairing washer was missing from one of the attachments on the rear clam, but other than that it's pretty much perfect.
Going to be a long week...
Cheers, I think it'll be more straightforward - the light covers are nowhere near flush, and unsealed (just held by a few screws) - I figure a warming of the cover and then taping in place whilst malleable should let them set in exactly the right shape.
Some strip sealant and o rings on the screws should make them properly watertight.
Anyone got recommendations for a suitable sealant strip that won't be an absolute arse to remove if necessary?
Some strip sealant and o rings on the screws should make them properly watertight.
Anyone got recommendations for a suitable sealant strip that won't be an absolute arse to remove if necessary?
It's very difficult to seal Libra headlights.
The covers are meant to fit flush with the body and putting sealant or the like and tightening them to get a seal can cause them to crack. They will also end up proud of the body.
The backs would also require sealing where the moulded cover is.
I did all that on mine and moisture still got in. Because they were nearly sealed it took ages to clear!
Have a look hear to see what Rich did with his. If I remember correctly it involved a membrane and vent to let moisture out but not in.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/(Libra build page 7)
If you are using it at night you may want to remove the covers as with them on you can't see! With them off they aren't great and really could do with an upgrade.
Join http://www.teamgtm.com/ There is loads of info on there.
The covers are meant to fit flush with the body and putting sealant or the like and tightening them to get a seal can cause them to crack. They will also end up proud of the body.
The backs would also require sealing where the moulded cover is.
I did all that on mine and moisture still got in. Because they were nearly sealed it took ages to clear!
Have a look hear to see what Rich did with his. If I remember correctly it involved a membrane and vent to let moisture out but not in.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/(Libra build page 7)
If you are using it at night you may want to remove the covers as with them on you can't see! With them off they aren't great and really could do with an upgrade.
Join http://www.teamgtm.com/ There is loads of info on there.
Edited by rdodger on Sunday 27th October 11:08
Cheers chaps.
The light covers aren't currently flush - so that was my first step (Ricola's page shows how he did his by heating and taping).
Then thinking of how to seal.
That membrane looks interesting, but no details if he actually found/fitted one - would be interested in finding out as it seems a neat solution. Would be hidden by the fact I'll probably be copying his approach to fitting HID bi-xenons and painting the recess black.
A mate works for one of the top carbon/composite workshops in the country (they do loads of work for F1/ racing yachts etc.) so a few tweaks with CSM should be well within his comfort zone!
The light covers aren't currently flush - so that was my first step (Ricola's page shows how he did his by heating and taping).
Then thinking of how to seal.
That membrane looks interesting, but no details if he actually found/fitted one - would be interested in finding out as it seems a neat solution. Would be hidden by the fact I'll probably be copying his approach to fitting HID bi-xenons and painting the recess black.
A mate works for one of the top carbon/composite workshops in the country (they do loads of work for F1/ racing yachts etc.) so a few tweaks with CSM should be well within his comfort zone!
Unless things have changed, HIDs are a grey area with no real legislation, only opinions.
In fact the last lot of info I read on the DVLA website was just that, an 'opinion', not law. Although it was written in a way that may make you think it's law.
All I would say is, if you want to fit HIDs do two things:
-do NOT run higher than 4300k. This is 'neutral' white and close to sunlight. It will also generally be the highest lumen output, produce the least dazzle and glare and have the best CRI (colour rendition). Anything higher than this will generally have poor colour cast, cause a lot more glare and dazzle to other drivers and in return offer lower actual lumens (amount of light).
-run the correct type of bulb for the light. Reflector lights require a different bulb with a metal strip on to prevent glare. Projector lamps don't.
Once fitted ensure the beam cut off and alignment for the dip beams. Do this and you should have no trouble MoT time and you won't get flashed all the time or blind on coming traffic. But you should have some good high output headlights.
In fact the last lot of info I read on the DVLA website was just that, an 'opinion', not law. Although it was written in a way that may make you think it's law.
All I would say is, if you want to fit HIDs do two things:
-do NOT run higher than 4300k. This is 'neutral' white and close to sunlight. It will also generally be the highest lumen output, produce the least dazzle and glare and have the best CRI (colour rendition). Anything higher than this will generally have poor colour cast, cause a lot more glare and dazzle to other drivers and in return offer lower actual lumens (amount of light).
-run the correct type of bulb for the light. Reflector lights require a different bulb with a metal strip on to prevent glare. Projector lamps don't.
Once fitted ensure the beam cut off and alignment for the dip beams. Do this and you should have no trouble MoT time and you won't get flashed all the time or blind on coming traffic. But you should have some good high output headlights.
Cheers chaps, have taken this into consideration.
Plan is (to be fully fleshed out once I pick the car up tomorrow) to permit swift changeover between the HIDs and halogens. HID projectors mounted onto adjustment ring, in turn mounted onto adaptors that match the bolt position of the regular halogens. Quick connectors to bypass the HID ballast should mean it'll take a few minutes to swap. Made easier of course by the removable light covers and the opening clam.
Not planning on rushing the conversion, will get the car, assess approach, purchase bits and plan install.
Just spent a small fortune on cleaning kit for it, so plenty of manhours to consume prior to faffing with electrics!
Plan is (to be fully fleshed out once I pick the car up tomorrow) to permit swift changeover between the HIDs and halogens. HID projectors mounted onto adjustment ring, in turn mounted onto adaptors that match the bolt position of the regular halogens. Quick connectors to bypass the HID ballast should mean it'll take a few minutes to swap. Made easier of course by the removable light covers and the opening clam.
Not planning on rushing the conversion, will get the car, assess approach, purchase bits and plan install.
Just spent a small fortune on cleaning kit for it, so plenty of manhours to consume prior to faffing with electrics!
300bhp/ton said:
Unless things have changed, HIDs are a grey area with no real legislation, only opinions.
This suggests otherwise...http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
Podie said:
I've had a read of that link. Could you be more specific where you think they say they are illegal?The only point I can see is this:
"check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted."
But the key part is "fitted". If no such thing exists, then they can't check it or fail it.
300bhp/ton said:
Podie said:
I've had a read of that link. Could you be more specific where you think they say they are illegal?The only point I can see is this:
"check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted."
But the key part is "fitted". If no such thing exists, then they can't check it or fail it.
website said:
The car will fail if a headlamp levelling or cleaning device is inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
As I said, it suggests that if there is no levelling or cleaning device it will fail the MOT.HID or LED lamps require self levelling and wash system to get through the IVA test. So there would be no way to get a new car on the road with HIDs and without these systems. So it will depend on how fussy your MOT tester is I imagine. But I doubt you'd get far arguing the point, as VOSA can simply call you back in to retest, where you'd fail.
CrutyRammers said:
HID or LED lamps require self levelling and wash system to get through the IVA test. So there would be no way to get a new car on the road with HIDs and without these systems. So it will depend on how fussy your MOT tester is I imagine. But I doubt you'd get far arguing the point, as VOSA can simply call you back in to retest, where you'd fail.
If your car has stiff / sports suspension and no load carrying capacity I believe it will pass IVA with HID's fitted and not require a self leveling or wash system to be fitted, don't have the book to hand but fairly sure thats what it says.Hoonigan said:
If your car has stiff / sports suspension and no load carrying capacity I believe it will pass IVA with HID's fitted and not require a self leveling or wash system to be fitted, don't have the book to hand but fairly sure thats what it says.
Gas Discharge and LED Headlamps 9. Must be accompanied by evidence of compliance with the technical requirements if
not compliant with the following:
 is "E" or "e" marked
 dipped beam remains on when main beam is on (gas discharge only)
 is fitted with a wash system (see notes 2 & 4)
 is fitted with an automatic headlamp self levelling system or self levelling
suspension (see note 3)
Note 2:
In the case of a left hand drive vehicle where the
headlamp height above the ground does not exceed
850mm, the requirement for headlamp cleaning shall not
apply.
Note 3:
Where vehicles are fitted with Gas Discharge or
LED Headlamps, the requirement for automatic headlamp
self-levelling system or self-levelling suspension shall be
deemed to be complied with where evidence is provided at
application stage that the vehicle meets the requirements of
6.2.6.1.2 of ECE Regulation 48.03 in all loading conditions.
Note 4:
Where vehicles are fitted with Gas Discharge or
LED Headlamps there is no requirement for headlamp
cleaning if the light output is below 2000 Lumens (evidence
must be provided).
So Levelling - yes, probably, if the suspension is stiff enough - don't know what they'd accept for evidence of compliance though.
Washing - only if you are LHD or the lights are less than 2000 lumens.
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