BMW i3 vs. Renault Zoe - image vs. reality?
Discussion
Just reading the BMW i3 thread and it's full of people who are ordering pure electric versions. These things will be everywhere in a few months.
In comparison the Renault Zoe is at least £10k cheaper, is equally as roomy, has the exact same range and fancy charger tech with remote control etc ... yet I've not seen a single one on the road in almost a year of them being on sale, except for the one we test drove from a very surprised dealer back in the summer. They're completely invisible and don't even get a mention in articles that include the fugly Leaf.
Now I appreciate the i3 is more powerful and is built out of sexy tech. But it's still no sports car and does not move the game forward at all despite it's carbon fibre structure IMHO. Same old 90 mile range and long charging times as the Leaf and Zoe. It's no Tesla.
So what was really holding back sales of electric cars in the UK for the last couple of years? The fact that they all have short ranges and other limitations, or was it simply that they didn't have a premium badge on the front?
Were the Zoe and Leaf simply too utilitarian to appeal to the breed of early adopters who'd actually risk buying an electric car, despite being perfectly capable?
Discuss
In comparison the Renault Zoe is at least £10k cheaper, is equally as roomy, has the exact same range and fancy charger tech with remote control etc ... yet I've not seen a single one on the road in almost a year of them being on sale, except for the one we test drove from a very surprised dealer back in the summer. They're completely invisible and don't even get a mention in articles that include the fugly Leaf.
Now I appreciate the i3 is more powerful and is built out of sexy tech. But it's still no sports car and does not move the game forward at all despite it's carbon fibre structure IMHO. Same old 90 mile range and long charging times as the Leaf and Zoe. It's no Tesla.
So what was really holding back sales of electric cars in the UK for the last couple of years? The fact that they all have short ranges and other limitations, or was it simply that they didn't have a premium badge on the front?
Were the Zoe and Leaf simply too utilitarian to appeal to the breed of early adopters who'd actually risk buying an electric car, despite being perfectly capable?
Discuss
Just to declare my position, I'd have a Tesla Roadster tomorrow if I could afford one. I like the idea of an electric commuter and will sneak a test drive of an i3 when I can, but won't actually buy one
My Zoe test drive thread is here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My Zoe test drive thread is here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Yup. The amusing thing is that the consensus before was an electric car with a 90 mile range was a pointless curiosity for a minority. But put on a BMW badge and bling interior suddenly 90 miles is all you could ever need. I loved the Leaf when I test drove last year. You could then only buy it with the 16 amp on board charger so charging from empty never took less than 8 hours, and I found the 90 mile quoted range to be optimistic even in ideal conditions.
Suddenly a year down the line along come BMW with a more visually interesting product, with a range extending auxiliary power unit, 32 amp on board charger and charging from empty at home is unlikely to ever take longer than 3.5 hours because the APU ensures the battery doesn't get as close as the Leaf's to total depletion. Big difference in usability, and a massive hike in viability.
Suddenly a year down the line along come BMW with a more visually interesting product, with a range extending auxiliary power unit, 32 amp on board charger and charging from empty at home is unlikely to ever take longer than 3.5 hours because the APU ensures the battery doesn't get as close as the Leaf's to total depletion. Big difference in usability, and a massive hike in viability.
Tim - True, although the Zoe can work with chargers up to 43kw which can charge the car to 80% full in 30 minutes. Home charger is full charge in 4 hours. I believe this is true for the new version of the Leaf too.
Dick - the Zoe is only £15k, not £25k. Just reinforces how useless Renault advertising has been.
Dick - the Zoe is only £15k, not £25k. Just reinforces how useless Renault advertising has been.
moribund said:
BMW are successful for a reason I guess ... And Renault are not.
Renault are successful at a certain price point, the same as BMW. Being new tech electric cars are expensive, BMW sells expensive cars, Renault doesn't.I suspect once the 'premium' German marques do the ground work with electric the more mainstream manfacturers will be able to start releasing cheaper products which will sell.
moribund said:
Just reading the BMW i3 thread and it's full of people who are ordering pure electric versions. These things will be everywhere in a few months.
I doubt it very much. No use in a City as nowhere to charge them on the street. It's an ugly b
d despite the tech, imho it's hideous and my wife and son both agree. Batteries - does anyone even know the cost to replace them when they no longer charge? Surely significant which will make the car worthless after 8 years say? If that is the case where is the 2nd hand market for them?TX.
Edit - I don't like em
even though it sounds the ideal car for me as I rarely travel more than 90 miles a dayAnotherClarkey said:
The Zoe only appears cheaper because the price does not include the battery - this must be leased from Renault.
That may be true but if you had to pay for the Zoe battery at the time of purchase it wouldn't be anything like £10k cheaper than the i3. In fact it might even make the i3 look like good value.AnotherClarkey said:
AnotherClarkey said:
The Zoe only appears cheaper because the price does not include the battery - this must be leased from Renault.
That may be true but if you had to pay for the Zoe battery at the time of purchase it wouldn't be anything like £10k cheaper than the i3. In fact it might even make the i3 look like good value.Terminator X said:
.....Batteries - does anyone even know the cost to replace them when they no longer charge? Surely significant which will make the car worthless after 8 years say? If that is the case where is the 2nd hand market for them?...
Personally, I don't care. I'm not interested in owning, only leasing these. A position BMW also seem to be happy with, probably because they want to build up their knowledge base. There are too many unknowns at the moment.3 thoughts:
-I like EVs and have never seen much about the Zoe and only heard it existed a few months ago. Ergo, Renault are simply not marketing it.
-by calling it Zoe they clearly only want to attract women buyers. Basic fact is that men have more money to buy cars and higher propensity to make impulse purchases.
-who really wants a Renault
So, bad marketing, bad branding, weak brand full stop.
Harsh and not fair but highlighting the contrast with the BMW brand and the i3 product.
-I like EVs and have never seen much about the Zoe and only heard it existed a few months ago. Ergo, Renault are simply not marketing it.
-by calling it Zoe they clearly only want to attract women buyers. Basic fact is that men have more money to buy cars and higher propensity to make impulse purchases.
-who really wants a Renault
So, bad marketing, bad branding, weak brand full stop.
Harsh and not fair but highlighting the contrast with the BMW brand and the i3 product.
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