Wednesday 6th November 2013

Aston says no to eight-speeders

So why hasn't the new Vanquish Volante got ZF's eight-speed gearbox? Best ask Aston

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So despite all that aluminium and carbon fibre the new Aston Martin Vanquish, and especially the drop-top Volante version we've just driven, are heavy old beasts. Heavy enough to blunt the edge even of a 573hp 6.0-litre V12.

Given that, and the common (if perhaps not necessarily fair) accusation Aston Martin has failed to move the game on, why didn't it follow the crowd and fit ZF's all conquering eight-speed auto? It would give both the V12 more ratios to play with and Aston Martin a chance to curb the worst excesses of thirst and CO2.

Extra ratios might help offset Vanquish's bulk

"Tell me, did you miss the extra gears when you drove the car?" asked a forthright Aston boss Dr Bez on the launch when we asked him. Um, well, now you come to mention it. He's unapologetic though. "If you have eight speeds you are shifting all the time, maybe to save two per cent in fuel consumption; we will have it one day because they [as in ZF] will stop making the six-speed eventually but for now..."

Putting the same question to development boss Ian Minards and product manager Andy Haslam they toe the boss's line. "We talked about it but decided it can be a bit fussy and always hunting around for ratios," says Haslam. Minards agrees, saying the V12's torque means you don't need a huge spread of ratios and is intended to be used in its manual mode and this would simply be too busy with more than six gears.

Minards has driven the gearbox in - inevitably - the BMW M135i and a Land Rover Discovery. In the latter he said he never took it out of auto but the BMW impressed, even when shifting with the paddles. "They've done a good job on the calibration in the BMW. I always considered DCTs as a manual with an auto option and automatics the other way around but I think you could do a blind test and most wouldn't tell the difference between it and a dual-clutch."

More gears will come but not for now

So there must be a weight penalty then? Minards doesn't think so, at least not a significant one. Though he claims otherwise cost must be at the heart of it, Aston Martin being the only firm to mount the ZF six-speeder in a transaxle location with the diff mounted directly to the back. That requires a unique casing, which can't be a cheap investment. And, as we know, Aston Martin isn't exactly rolling in it at the moment.

It's perhaps a missed opportunity for the Vanquish range to put some clear water between it and the DB9 though. And given immediate rivals like the Bentley Continental GT and GTC use it customers might be forgiven for thinking they're missing out on the latest tech.

[V8 FOU]

A very salient point there. I would guess that you would be doing more shifting in manual mode with 8 speeds than 6.
Oh Gawd, that interior! My eyes, my eyes.......

[Oddball RS]

I think if it was fitted and with specific ratio's it would save a lot more than 2%, it smacks a little of excuses because it costs too much to swop at this stage of the drivetrains life

[WaferThinHam]

If more gears are the be all and end all for fuel consumption, why haven't manufacturers gone for a CVT?

Maximum mpg when required, and maximum power when required.

[KTF]

The market to Aston: We want lower emissions, more 'high tech stuff' like your rivals, a 4 door version for China as they like to sit in the back, etc.

Aston to the market: No you dont, we know best. This way to obscurity...

Edit: I like how they spend all that money on vagina coloured leather but then save a few pence by keeping the steering wheel boss black.

Edited by KTF on Wednesday 6th November 10:26

[greygoose]

That interior is vile, is it built for Barbie?

[Ozzie Osmond]

greygoose said:

That interior is vile, is it built for Barbie?

Probably imported from Spyker!

[Prawnboy]

it does sound like a load of flannel from Aston, i think they are doing just enough for this generation of cars until the AMG engines and new ZF boxes go into the next wave of cars.

[chrisx666]

WaferThinHam said:

If more gears are the be all and end all for fuel consumption, why haven't manufacturers gone for a CVT?

Maximum mpg when required, and maximum power when required.

Torque capability?

[civicduty]

Ozzie Osmond said:

greygoose said:

That interior is vile, is it built for Barbie?

Probably imported from Spyker!

What's with the poverty spec air vents?

[toys]

In terms of Aston's position it does smack a little of biding their time (in a cost efficient way) until the AMG powertrains come in. Having said that, the 6-speeder in my Jag XFR (similar torque to the Vanquish) works very well, and I struggle to think that the 8-speeder as fitted to the facelift XFR would give a significant benefit.

[Mr2Mike]

WaferThinHam said:

If more gears are the be all and end all for fuel consumption, why haven't manufacturers gone for a CVT?

Maximum mpg when required, and maximum power when required.

Reliability/durability issues coupled with limited torque capacity and often poor efficiency.

[Maxus]

Prawnboy said:

it does sound like a load of flannel from Aston, i think they are doing just enough for this generation of cars until the AMG engines and new ZF boxes go into the next wave of cars.

Lets await the back peddling when the AMG engines are mated to the MB 9G-Tronic gearbox in the next cars!

[BMCG]

Again we have Aston creating excuses/marketing spin/denial for avoiding an effective solution...

The ZF 8 speeder could be readily tuned - witness BMW's efforts - to mate well/synergistically bind with the Vanquish....

So let's call a spade a spade and accept that Aston couldn't afford to...pity.

[anonymous-user]

in my experience, because of the increased "lock up" capabilities of the TC clutch in the 8spdr and the much decreased torque interruption during shifting, it subjectively actually "changes gear less" ! (i.e. it feels like it stays locked "hard" into a single gear for longer)

[LeoSayer]

"If you have eight speeds you are shifting all the time..."

Only if you change gear manually. How many drivers do that?

He also fails to mention the performance benefits of having more gears and therefore closer ratios.

[vesparider]

I can only go by what I've seen in mags, but isn't the problem not so much that its got six gears and more that the shift isn't fast enough in manual mode and the 'box just feels outdated in general?

I love Astons but I am starting to dislike the company, or maybe more specifically Dr Bez. He seems massively arrogant, which is maybe not really justified given how poor Aston is at the moment. When you're Ferrari I can see you being able to get away with ignoring criticism but when you're a 'struggling' company like Aston, maybe not so much.

[Daniel1]

vesparider said:

I can only go by what I've seen in mags, but isn't the problem not so much that its got six gears and more that the shift isn't fast enough in manual mode and the 'box just feels outdated in general?

thats what ive read too.

[iloveboost]

Oddball RS said:

I think if it was fitted and with specific ratio's it would save a lot more than 2%, it smacks a little of excuses because it costs too much to swop at this stage of the drivetrains life

Yes this is what I was thinking. It won't matter too much tho because this would never happen:
Customer:I like the look of that and I'm rich so I can afford it.
(Walks into showroom)
Salesman:Hi there can I help you?
Customer:I'm intersted in that new Vanquish can you tell me more about it?
Salesman:Sure. It's got a 573bhp V12, six speed gearbox, a...
Customer:Whoa! Let me stop you right there! Thought you'd slip that one past me did you?!
Salesman:Sorry?!
Customer:It's not got eight speeds?!
Salesman:No.
Customer:Do I look like a fool?!
Saleman:No sir you do not.
Customer:Saving money is REALLY important to me!
Salesman:I see.
Customer:I didn't get this rich being lucky my lad!
Salesman:But you're buying a beautiful, expensive, ego boosting Aston, and it's a V12?!
Customer:I wanted eight speeds dammit!
Salesman:I don't fo..
Customer:More is better. My cameraphone is better than your camera phone because it has 100 million pixels!
Salesman:Actually I don't thi..
Customer:It's just a FACT. How many does yours have?
Salesman:Four million pixels but it's quite g...
Customer:How many speeds did your first mountain bike have?
Salesman:I don't see how...
Customer:HOW MANY?!
Salesman:Maybe...Ten.
Customer:Ten! And were you as cool as the kid with 21? WERE YOU?!
Salesman:No I, I wasn't.
Customer:And you wonder why I'm walking out now.
Salesman:DAM YOU ASTON!

[Rawwr]

Hah. I like

[RacerMike]

Max_Torque said:

in my experience, because of the increased "lock up" capabilities of the TC clutch in the 8spdr and the much decreased torque interruption during shifting, it subjectively actually "changes gear less" ! (i.e. it feels like it stays locked "hard" into a single gear for longer)

Add to the fact that ratios 1-6 in the 8HP are very similar to rations 1-6 in the 6HP and 7 and 8 are both overdrives, and the argument from Bez falls flat on it's face really....and as you say. This issue here is not the number of gears, but the quality of the shifts. With ignition cut, rather than torque down upshifts and better control strategies through all shifting modes, the 8HP is clearly a better box...and not because of it's extra 2 ratios.