RE: Peugeot/Citroën quits rallying
Friday 5th November 2004
Peugeot/Citroën quits rallying
2005 is the French car maker's last WRC season
After next year's season, neither Peugeot nor Citroën -- both of course marques of the same French company -- will be involved in rallying. The parent company has decided to pull out because they've won (and presumably feel they have nowhere to go but down) as well as, the company says, for economic reasons.
The official statement reads as follows:
In five consecutive years of competition in the World Rally Championship, Peugeot and Citroën have between them won five manufacturer’s titles and three driver’s titles. These results reflect the diligent and passionate determination of each marque, backed by a substantial financial commitment to motor sports competition.
This sustained success, coupled with tougher prevailing conditions in the automotive industry, has led to a review of PSA Peugeot Citroën’s motor sports activities. Peugeot and Citroën will remain strongly committed to the World Rally Championship in 2005 but the Group has decided that the marques will not take part beyond that date.
This will enable the Group to significantly cut its sports budget and create new opportunities in motor sports. In due course, Citroën Sport and Peugeot Sport will announce the disciplines in which they plan to participate after 2005.
Discussion
Exactly it seems to be a recurring theme and the organsiers always fall for the big corporation spiel that their involvement will take said championship to a new level. Balls, they will use it for their benefit until it's no longer is economical or they have had their fill. All motorosport needs privateers, and it's about time they got a better deal.
It's happened in just about every form and F1 will probably implode because of it. When Mercedes and BMW are fed up with failing to beat Ferrarri they will throw in the towel and no-one will have any engines....that will be interesting to see.
It's happened in just about every form and F1 will probably implode because of it. When Mercedes and BMW are fed up with failing to beat Ferrarri they will throw in the towel and no-one will have any engines....that will be interesting to see.
this is a strange move.
remember when renault dominated formula 1? they set out to be the lead engine supplier and the world beating image they garnered through F1 rubbed off on their car division.
they then pulled out whilst at their peak. been there done that, and all the sureys says our F1 success does not make a buyer more or less likely to buy Renault.
doh. three years later they are back. did they make a small mistake?
so why are they looking to make the same mistake. they will be back in 2-3 years.
who was it who said "race on Sunday sell on Monday"? Was it Henry Ford?
remember when renault dominated formula 1? they set out to be the lead engine supplier and the world beating image they garnered through F1 rubbed off on their car division.
they then pulled out whilst at their peak. been there done that, and all the sureys says our F1 success does not make a buyer more or less likely to buy Renault.
doh. three years later they are back. did they make a small mistake?
so why are they looking to make the same mistake. they will be back in 2-3 years.
who was it who said "race on Sunday sell on Monday"? Was it Henry Ford?
Ford are in for 2005, but are looking at other possibilites for 2006 at the moment AFAIK.
I'm waiting for someone to say it's Bernie's way of killing the sport that could rival F1, lets face it the 2005 season will be fairly pants compared to the past due to the different stages & of course 2006 is looking very bleak.
I'm waiting for someone to say it's Bernie's way of killing the sport that could rival F1, lets face it the 2005 season will be fairly pants compared to the past due to the different stages & of course 2006 is looking very bleak.
Well maybe if they actually made some cars you could buy that represented what they were driving. Since when was the Citroen Xsara a sports car? Maybe thats where they are going wrong.
Unlike Ford who at least make some decent sports cars out of Rallying think Cosworth, Escort, Focus RS etc.
Earth calling the marketing dept, wake up & tell the manufacturing people they actually have to make cars to sell them to make a profit - helloooo............
Unlike Ford who at least make some decent sports cars out of Rallying think Cosworth, Escort, Focus RS etc.
Earth calling the marketing dept, wake up & tell the manufacturing people they actually have to make cars to sell them to make a profit - helloooo............
cptsideways said:
Well maybe if they actually made some cars you could buy that represented what they were driving. Since when was the Citroen Xsara a sports car? Maybe thats where they are going wrong.
Unlike Ford who at least make some decent sports cars out of Rallying think Cosworth, Escort, Focus RS etc.
Earth calling the marketing dept, wake up & tell the manufacturing people they actually have to make cars to sell them to make a profit - helloooo............
EXACTLY!
Look at the Viper/Corvette Race team efforts the last few years. Those are real sports cars you can buy. The NASCAR, F1 and many rally cars are unrelatable to real cars you or I can purchase although the Focus special editions or Subarus are vaguely similar to a WRC rally car.
This could account for why GM's Chevrolet division and Ford's F1 division have just withdrawn from Indy car racing and F1 respectively.
Rumour heard today about Peugeot/Citroen reason for leaving is down to the fact that they have struggled all year with the 307CC. Not much sign on the horizon of things improving.
The thing that clinched it, and I say it is a rumour, is that the new C4 WRC car is proving to be equally as difficult to sort and get up on the pace reliably.
The thing that clinched it, and I say it is a rumour, is that the new C4 WRC car is proving to be equally as difficult to sort and get up on the pace reliably.
hammerwerfer said:
Time to revive Group A and N and give the privateers a shot at those rallies. WRC is far too elitist, the stages too short and the WRC cars are a farce.
That's all very well, but if you went back to Grp A regs there'd be only two competitive cars - the Mitsubishi and the Subaru, as is the case in Grp N at the moment. Modern Audis couldn't be competitive unless the rules were freed up a little on the suspension side - which is exactly where we are now with WRC cars. How many other manufacturers have 4WD cars in their ranges? Not many.
The best compromise would be a rules system where the cars run simple, spec 4WD systems (with no electronic 'active' diffs) supplied by someone like Xtrac and allow bigger, normally aspirated engines. The current electronic transmission trickery is what stops the cars going sideways these days - no proper Scandinavian flicks anymore. The basic structure of WRC cars in terms of homologation (minimum body length the only requirement) and suspension (almost entirely free) should remain, though.
You're dead right about the stages, though. They should be longer. Rallying has been incredibly popular for years and years, but the FIA decided that it should be made spectator and TV friendly... What's happened? Spectator numbers are falling! Nobody seems to have any sense within the FIA. I used to love going into Wales to watch the RAC: you'd pay £10 per car (£2 each), stand wherever you liked, watch 170-odd cars go past, wander round a bit and have a great day. You'd possibly go to a few more stages if you had time. The RAC was the single biggest sporting event in Britain by miles, with over 2 million spectators in five days - and no, I'm not making that up.
Now it gets a tiny proportion of that, all squeezed into a tiny corner of Wales, herded into sheep pens to ensure no one gets hurt (and no spectator ever has been hurt - but Carlos Sainz once grazed some muppets who chose to stand in the escape road on the approach to a downhill hairpin...), buying tickets in advance and paying around £15 per head for the privilege of seeing half the number of cars pass through some artificially created 'stadium section' on the blandest of the Welsh stages.
I enjoy rallying on the TV (especially the 1000 Lakes, which is the only 'great' event left in these sanitised times), but I have no interest in going to watch it live anymore. I enjoy it on TV despite what the FIA has turned it into, not because of.
When the Monte was on TV earlier this year, they showed the Col de Turini stage and a particular right-left section, past all the bars, that looked very familiar. The WRC cars tippy-toed through, understeering and looking all at sea on the ice - in front of a reasonable, if slightly muted, mid-afternoon crowd of spectators. Then I put on my Group B Supercars video and watched the Quattros and Lancia 037s through exactly the same section, at the same camera angle, completely sideways, almost touching the barriers, barely under control, passing a massive, rapturous crowd. And it was after midnight on the freezing Col... That's what rallying was all about - today's version is merely a limp impersonation.
Rallying used to be an adventure for both competitors and spectators. Turning into a made-for-TV semi-stadium sport has all but destroyed it.
Sorry for the extended rant, but I despair of World Championship rallying when I remember what it used to be like - how Vatanen could overcome a five-minute deficit to win an event when the current sprints barely allow them to claw back 1 minute. I'd love to have a couple of hours in the company of Max Mosely and Dave Richards and ask them what the hell they've done to this great sport...
ahonen said:
a good post
To be correct there has been one serious incident on the RAC. In 1976 on the Speech House stage in the Forest of Dean a Porsche went straight on into the crowd and things were really not good, to be honest cannot remember now if there was a fatality or not.
The problem was because a lot of spectators had been attracted to the event and due to inexperience didn't know where to stand and the marshalls were overwhelmed.
That was the start of the spectator stages, and the following year 1977 all the Sunday stages were spectator Mickey Mouse ones, apart from Clipstone and Blidworth forests. The logic being that anyone spectating during the week would be enthusiasts and know the dangers and behave properly.
To be honest UK spectator behaviour has always been far better than in some other countries, typically the Latin ones. Speaking as someone who has done it, it really is not pleasant to be driving, or be driven, towards a wall of people who part at the last second. Pace notes or not the crew cannot plan lines, braking points etc at all properly.
If you want to see what I mean there are some classic clips of Walter Rohrl driving his Quattro in just such a manner, between walls of spectators. I cannot remember event now, it must be on a video.
Nevertheless I do agree with ahonen that the sport is a shadow of its former self. I didn't like the 36 hours out of bed, but by God it was an adventure. As you say people were still totally on the limit even after a night out of bed.
The promises with the WRC were that the change in format would make it more affordable for manufacturers, bring in sponsorship money due to better TV coverage and higher profile. I have seen none of those promises fulfilled and yes it is time for a rethink.
However I do totally agree the Thousand Lakes rules.
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