996 911 c2 or e46 m3 track car?

[e46m3c]

After pretty much deciding my next track / sprint / drift / toy car is going to be an E46 m3, i had a quick look at 996 911's on auto trader, and to my surprise they can be had for under 7k!

So question is. E46 M3 or 996 911 as my next track car?

Either car would be stripped back to as light as possible with buckets and a wheel remaining.

Quick pro / cons
E46 pro
1k cheaper to buy
40 more bhp
bullet proof engine
cheaper parts
space to carry spare set of tyres
looks awesome
sounds awesome
removed parts sell well on ebay
i already have spare brakes, wheels and spacers
lots of experience repairing m3s

e46 cons
heavy
subframe will need doing


911 pro
light weight
good brakes standard
its a 911 which is cool
its a 911 which really is cool
i already have an e46 m3 that ill keep
Legendary GT3, can this be 90% as good?
Light weight even with full trim
supposed mythical feedback and involvement.

911 con
expensive to buy
expensive to keep
will require expensive mods to get track capable
will require expensive bodywork to look cool
lots of engine failure threads



i guess ive answered my own question...

Edited by e46m3c on Saturday 16th November 10:20

Edited by e46m3c on Saturday 16th November 10:24

Edited by e46m3c on Saturday 16th November 10:27

[Trev450]

Yes you have answered your own question.

The 996 has inherent engine problems which although don't effect all of them, the failure rates are high enough to be of concern. Anyone of the'common' problems could feasibly cost you more than the car is worth to repair.

[joema]

You can get a pre-emptive fix for the ims I issue can't you?

If you have done the m3 thing before try something new maybe. Driving a stripped 911 to me, would feel a bit like I was driving a race car at Le Mans. That's pretty cool

[0a]

Both are road cars, not track cars. Why not get a different car more suited to track work - less heavy would help keep costs down for a start.

[Trev450]

joema said:

You can get a pre-emptive fix for the ims I issue can't you?

You can, but that still leaves the issues of RMS, D chunk failure and bore scoring.

[boxsey]

Just to confuse the OP here's Mike Wilds driving an early 996 at Spa. The owner did a few mods to it....including the squealy pagid RS29s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-1SnVSlGhI

[fuchsiasteve]

E46 everytime. Too many inherent engine problems with the 996s hence the give away prices. Other than the E46 known rear subframe cracking flint stones style you'll be fine.

Or you could just drive the 996 till the IMS bearing goes bang then pop it in the nearest bin and walk home

Or the curveball is a Japanese motor that will just keep going round all day long and never break but doesn't have the badge

[Masher964]

Other considerations might be:
1. Do you want your track car to feel entirely different from your daily driver?
2. Do you want a track car which challenges you to improve your driving (especially the smoothness of it)?
3. What will be the residual value of your chosen car?
4. Do you like to work on a car yourself?

I am sure there is plenty more to consider. In this debate, it is hard to argue a 911 will be a whole different experience as a track car to the daily driver for 99% of people. I can imagine the 911 retaining a better residual value ( though may be proved wrong). The 911 certainly challenges your driving since a big lump of metal hung out back will punish you if you recklessly chuck the car around (unless you really are a driving God).

That said, it's hard to argue the 911 looks likely to be the more expensive to own and I would share your concerns regarding the reliability of the 996 engine... Find a rebuilt one?

Best of luck.

[isleofthorns]

boxsey said:

Just to confuse the OP here's Mike Wilds driving an early 996 at Spa. The owner did a few mods to it....including the squealy pagid RS29s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-1SnVSlGhI

I have read this guy's blog of modifications made to his 996 - they were numerous and very expensive. In the same region as having bought a cheapish gt3 from memory.

I've driven my stock 996 on track. I also have a track-prepped e36 3.0. Whilst the e36 has some good mods, it's in gt3 territory for substantially less than it would cost to do the same to an e46, and massively less than achieving the same with a standard 996.

The 3.0 m3 is relatively light and pretty bomb-proof in comparison to either an e46 or 996.

Here's a clip (albeit a poor one) from the ring a few years ago and before a lot of the mods were made....


http://m.youtube.com/index?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&...

[patmahe]

I cannot even begin to tell you how much I hate you for having this awesome problem

I've been trying for 5 years to get an MX-5 for the track, but real life keeps getting in the way

Whatever you get enjoy

[Porkie]

0a said:

Both are road cars, not track cars. Why not get a different car more suited to track work - less heavy would help keep costs down for a start.

Agree

Lotus Elise or Exige would be my suggestion.

Alot cheaper to run as lighter, and more feel and interaction and fun.

[edh]

Don't see why a 996 would need expensive mods to make it track capable.

But

A tired one might need plenty spending on it to bring it back up to spec..

Suspension arms, droplinks, shocks, brake lines, discs/pads, clutch/IMS bearing. Find one with those done & you're in a much better place.

[Trev450]

That still doesn't eliminate the possibility of bore scoring or D chunk, either of which could be more costly to repair than the car is worth.

[edh]

Trev450 said:

That still doesn't eliminate the possibility of bore scoring or D chunk, either of which could be more costly to repair than the car is worth.

True - but it's a small risk - and isn't it an either / or? Early cars might suffer a D chunk while later cars score bores? maybe the answer is to get one with a Hartech rebuild then?

E46's engines aren't bomb proof (what is?)

[Olivera]

E46 M3 (or even an E36 M3).

It's quite telling that at the Nurburgring there are lots and lots of M3s of all variants, but almost no 996 or 997 Carreras, or even Boxsters or Caymans of that vintage.

[Trev450]

edh said:

Trev450 said:

That still doesn't eliminate the possibility of bore scoring or D chunk, either of which could be more costly to repair than the car is worth.

True - but it's a small risk - and isn't it an either / or? Early cars might suffer a D chunk while later cars score bores? maybe the answer is to get one with a Hartech rebuild then?

E46's engines aren't bomb proof (what is?)

Since Porsche won't even admit to there being a problem, there are no stats available as to the rate of failures. I've seen quite a few reported on the forums over the last couple of years, however.

I agree the answer is to buy one with a Hartech rebuilt engine - end of worries.

[edh]

Olivera said:

E46 M3 (or even an E36 M3).

It's quite telling that at the Nurburgring there are lots and lots of M3s of all variants, but almost no 996 or 997 Carreras, or even Boxsters or Caymans of that vintage.

Nope, I never see a 911 at the 'ring

M3's have always offered great hp/£ in a pretty good package. If you have a JK & loads of money you don't buy an M3, you buy a 911 GT3 of some variety. If you want to spend less, then the M3 makes a lot of sense. I think Porsche prices have also stood up better in mainland Europe. Most of the sub 10k 911's you could buy until very recently weren't very quick - SC's etc.. so not much competition with an E36 M3 for example.

But now 10k gets you a 996, they are pretty quick cars and given the choice, I wouldn't look twice at a 3 series. Going down the value scale a bit, a Boxster S is looking pretty good for ~5k, and Hartech are making these go pretty quickly in the PCGB championships. Of course the same engine / worn parts issues apply to this as the 996.

[fuchsiasteve]

edh said:

E46's engines aren't bomb proof (what is?)

That's easy: A Honda

I would love to track a 996 but the thought of caning one for 100 laps make me wince! The cost in tyres and brakes alone would be astronomical let alone replacing the engine when it went pop!

I love the look of the 996 but the fact they are going for give away prices tells a story in itself.

So for that reason I'd go E46 everytime between the two of them (unless you have a 10 grand slurry fund otherwise 996 FTW!).

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Saturday 23 November 00:55

[edh]

fuchsiasteve said:

edh said:

E46's engines aren't bomb proof (what is?)

That's easy: A Honda

I would love to track a 996 but the thought of caning one for 100 laps make me wince! The cost in tyres and brakes alone would be astronomical let alone replacing the engine when it went pop!

I love the look of the 996 but the fact they are going for give away prices tells a story in itself.

So for that reason I'd go E46 everytime between the two of them (unless you have a 10 grand slurry fund otherwise 996 FTW!).

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Saturday 23 November 00:55

There's plenty of smoky VTEC Honda engines out there - I know, I bought one once

996 or M3 will both cost plenty to run as track cars, can't see tyres & brakes being more expensive on the 996 though. Lots of M3 owners seem to feel the need to stick AP's on as well - Porsche standard brakes are fine.

996's are cheap (just like M3's) because they made loads. There's nothing rare/special about a 996 (or an M3). Falling 997 prices keep pushing them down.