Overtaking in club racing - idiots guide
Discussion
Hi,
What’s the general consensus about overtaking during a club race? I took part in my first track day recently where it was clear that we were not to race (it was for charidee). I’ve competed before in sprint and hillclimbs so I’m not short of a competitive edge and found it quite difficult not to race but managed to keep mysoef under control. However, I did wonder about overtaking, taking to account that my only real knowledge is watching F1 and touring cars on the telly.
There were a number of times where I exited a corner faster than the car in front and carried that speed onto the first part of the straight where the two cars were evenly matched. If I was racing I could have got alongside but not cleanly past by the next corner. I didn’t try as we weren’t racing but I would have got to the next corner with at least some overlap between the two cars.
Assuming I was fully alongside and had the inside line for the next corner, the other driver could give up the place and drop in behind me along the straight or wait till the corner, find that he can’t turn in and apex as usual because I’m there already, so he could try and take a different line into the corner and out drag me on the exit, or he could turn in anyway and crash into me. This seems a bit weird as the overtake was really done at the start of the straight, where as on the telly it is at least in part under brakes at the end.
What if I only have a small overlap after the last corner and it stays the same by the end of the straight? If he turns in we make contact. If he doesn’t I get the place, even though I was only a tiny bit faster. (Or I could back off and drop in behind?)
What if I have no overlap but am very close and take the inside line? I’m still saying “turn in and there’s a good chance we’ll crash so you might as well give up the place”.
I suppose if I only have a small overlap, he could try and brake later than me and cut across me to take up his line, leaving me on the wrong (inside) line. But this would be difficult to judge so as not get hit. And anyway I’d try and brake late too, making a crash more likely.
What if I have no overlap but am very close and take the inside line? I’m still saying “turn in and there’s a good chance we’ll crash so you might as well give up the place”.
So is racing really a race to put your car closest to the next apex, because if you are there they can’t be?
Just feels like I am surprised there are not more incidents of cars colliding!
What’s the general consensus about overtaking during a club race? I took part in my first track day recently where it was clear that we were not to race (it was for charidee). I’ve competed before in sprint and hillclimbs so I’m not short of a competitive edge and found it quite difficult not to race but managed to keep mysoef under control. However, I did wonder about overtaking, taking to account that my only real knowledge is watching F1 and touring cars on the telly.
There were a number of times where I exited a corner faster than the car in front and carried that speed onto the first part of the straight where the two cars were evenly matched. If I was racing I could have got alongside but not cleanly past by the next corner. I didn’t try as we weren’t racing but I would have got to the next corner with at least some overlap between the two cars.
Assuming I was fully alongside and had the inside line for the next corner, the other driver could give up the place and drop in behind me along the straight or wait till the corner, find that he can’t turn in and apex as usual because I’m there already, so he could try and take a different line into the corner and out drag me on the exit, or he could turn in anyway and crash into me. This seems a bit weird as the overtake was really done at the start of the straight, where as on the telly it is at least in part under brakes at the end.
What if I only have a small overlap after the last corner and it stays the same by the end of the straight? If he turns in we make contact. If he doesn’t I get the place, even though I was only a tiny bit faster. (Or I could back off and drop in behind?)
What if I have no overlap but am very close and take the inside line? I’m still saying “turn in and there’s a good chance we’ll crash so you might as well give up the place”.
I suppose if I only have a small overlap, he could try and brake later than me and cut across me to take up his line, leaving me on the wrong (inside) line. But this would be difficult to judge so as not get hit. And anyway I’d try and brake late too, making a crash more likely.
What if I have no overlap but am very close and take the inside line? I’m still saying “turn in and there’s a good chance we’ll crash so you might as well give up the place”.
So is racing really a race to put your car closest to the next apex, because if you are there they can’t be?
Just feels like I am surprised there are not more incidents of cars colliding!
Firstly you have to appreciate in club racing everyone knows everyone else. You need to consider the knowledge of other drivers aspect.
Secondly if you are not almost fully along side or at least showing your bonnet by their door at time of turn in you will be turned in on.
Thirdly it is possible for cars to go round a corner side by side.
Have you been Karting? It's like that, but with more respect.
Secondly if you are not almost fully along side or at least showing your bonnet by their door at time of turn in you will be turned in on.
Thirdly it is possible for cars to go round a corner side by side.
Have you been Karting? It's like that, but with more respect.
Bertrum said:
Secondly if you are not almost fully along side or at least showing your bonnet by their door at time of turn in you will be turned in on.
Thirdly it is possible for cars to go round a corner side by side.
It's like that, but with more respect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhfjbB9sDuA
See Page 3 on the following link.
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
Shoestringracer said:
Hi,my only real knowledge is watching F1 and touring cars on the telly.
Bearing in mind the rules in both are different to club racing!In F1 there is very little overtaking without the (unfair) advantage of KERS or waved blue flags and in (British) Touring Cars there is very little overtaking without a "nerf"!
IMF119 said:
See Page 3 on the following link.
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
Those are the clearest regs/guide I've ever read. Not sure that i 100% agree with them but if everyone know what they are driving to, then no one can complain !http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
Overtaking round the outside is possible. But tricky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVCeg8LpkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08znTHp3ZJQ
Just go like hell.
(My other son, Ian, holds the world record apparently for the most overtakes in a day with 117 in the 2004 Walter Hayes Trophy driving Gavin Wills' 92 Swift FF1600. Johnny Herbert held it previously in a Festival meeting according to FF1600 guru James Beckett.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVCeg8LpkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08znTHp3ZJQ
Just go like hell.
(My other son, Ian, holds the world record apparently for the most overtakes in a day with 117 in the 2004 Walter Hayes Trophy driving Gavin Wills' 92 Swift FF1600. Johnny Herbert held it previously in a Festival meeting according to FF1600 guru James Beckett.)
Edited by andygo on Tuesday 3rd December 16:18
woof said:
IMF119 said:
See Page 3 on the following link.
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
Those are the clearest regs/guide I've ever read. Not sure that i 100% agree with them but if everyone know what they are driving to, then no one can complain !http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2012%20Driving%20...
These are the Driving Standards for the Production BMW Championship and are followed up with penalties as described. There is a specific section about overtaking to try and stop the carage you see in BTCC. And as has been said already you'll be racing with folks you know and will soon gain a view as to who will leave you room and who may be a bit more agressive.
Here's a great double overtake at Donington into the Roberts chicane, around the outside and on the damp part of the track.
http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
spyderman8 said:
Hadn't seen than before woof - bloody awesome!
Cheers Chris - I was pretty pleased with the whole race - 7th on the restart and 1st by the end of the 3rd lap. I really enjoyed that race - well apart from the ridiculous 10sec penalty. Edited by woof on Sunday 8th December 14:04
Altrezia said:
Those Boxters look like great fun.
The BRSCC porsche spec makes them too heavy, under sprung and they could do with a bit more power. But it's a "even" playing field. Overtaking is difficult because they're heavy and have ABS. We're moving to the PCGB where the suspension is open and various other options are available. We'll be looking to be 3-4 secs quicker and still will mean we can do the CSCC and 750MC series 
woof said:
Here's a great double overtake at Donington into the Roberts chicane, around the outside and on the damp part of the track.
http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
Love that!http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
dapearson said:
woof said:
Here's a great double overtake at Donington into the Roberts chicane, around the outside and on the damp part of the track.
http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
Love that!http://youtu.be/fJykIXtvqLs
There's some overtakes here. I b
ksed up the start having grabbed the lead and then got tapped out. Then had some fun overtakes. I was following Miss Bert (the other green Rad) for part of the way and used our double-act overtake strategy on the outside at Corum!
Bert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7MjR6BrJi0
Action at...
59s
2:06
4:05 (I was being nice at 4:10 to give room on the exit - look where that got me!)
4:38 (fav overtaking spot)
6:34 (fav spot again, had to get past Miss B!)
8:31 (tedious now, although got the wrong gear and bksed the exit)
9:52
17:54 (super pass followed by immediate cock-up!!)
ksed up the start having grabbed the lead and then got tapped out. Then had some fun overtakes. I was following Miss Bert (the other green Rad) for part of the way and used our double-act overtake strategy on the outside at Corum!Bert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7MjR6BrJi0
Action at...
59s
2:06
4:05 (I was being nice at 4:10 to give room on the exit - look where that got me!)
4:38 (fav overtaking spot)
6:34 (fav spot again, had to get past Miss B!)
8:31 (tedious now, although got the wrong gear and b
ksed the exit)9:52
17:54 (super pass followed by immediate cock-up!!)
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