General Electric Gen EX engines suffering Icing Problems
Discussion
I heard this morning that these engines fitted to Boeing 747-8 aircraft have been told to stay away from storm conditions and high altitudes as they are suffering from problems with icing, there have apparently been six incidents this year when they have suffered loss of power due to icing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25068222
Could be serious in flight. I'm sure their are cures on the way...with their associated performance deficits.
Could be serious in flight. I'm sure their are cures on the way...with their associated performance deficits.
Z06George said:
I thought BA used Rolls Royce engines in their Boeing aircraft rather than GE ones?
They did but you would still that engine manufacturers whether RR or GE would consider it. And regarding the other comment yes in the BA case it was the fuel icing but by redesigning the engine or part of it they fixed the problem. So not purely fuel.Chrisgr31 said:
And regarding the other comment yes in the BA case it was the fuel icing but by redesigning the engine or part of it they fixed the problem. So not purely fuel.
There is a huge difference between Engine Icing and Fuel Icing!In fact the only commonality is the word 'icing'.
Let me explain.
Aviation Kerosene tends to go 'waxy' at low temperature as ice crystals form in it. This is Fuel Icing. This means that it does not flow well nor ignite well - worst case scenario is an engine flame-out. In the Civilian world the basic fuel has no Icing Inhibitors added to it, airliners generally preferring to use fuel cooled oil-coolers to warm the fuel prior it reaching the burners. Another option being the manual addition of an anti freeze in flight (eg HS125 aircraft). Military a/c, on the other hand, generally use fuel to blended with an icing inhibitor (FSII).
Engine Icing, on the other hand, is where you are getting ice build-up in the engine intakes or inlet guide vanes (or, worse still, actually in the compressor(s) ) which results in the engine becoming 'choked' leading to a compressor surge or, worse still, a compressor stall. In the later case a locked-in surge may occur leading to extreme temperature damage to the compressor.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Chrisgr31 said:
And regarding the other comment yes in the BA case it was the fuel icing but by redesigning the engine or part of it they fixed the problem. So not purely fuel.
There is a huge difference between Engine Icing and Fuel Icing!In fact the only commonality is the word 'icing'.
Let me explain.
Aviation Kerosene tends to go 'waxy' at low temperature as ice crystals form in it. This is Fuel Icing. This means that it does not flow well nor ignite well - worst case scenario is an engine flame-out. In the Civilian world the basic fuel has no Icing Inhibitors added to it, airliners generally preferring to use fuel cooled oil-coolers to warm the fuel prior it reaching the burners. Another option being the manual addition of an anti freeze in flight (eg HS125 aircraft). Military a/c, on the other hand, generally use fuel to blended with an icing inhibitor (FSII).
Engine Icing, on the other hand, is where you are getting ice build-up in the engine intakes or inlet guide vanes (or, worse still, actually in the compressor(s) ) which results in the engine becoming 'choked' leading to a compressor surge or, worse still, a compressor stall. In the later case a locked-in surge may occur leading to extreme temperature damage to the compressor.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Chrisgr31 said:
And regarding the other comment yes in the BA case it was the fuel icing but by redesigning the engine or part of it they fixed the problem. So not purely fuel.
There is a huge difference between Engine Icing and Fuel Icing!In fact the only commonality is the word 'icing'.
Let me explain.
Aviation Kerosene tends to go 'waxy' at low temperature as ice crystals form in it. This is Fuel Icing. This means that it does not flow well nor ignite well - worst case scenario is an engine flame-out. In the Civilian world the basic fuel has no Icing Inhibitors added to it, airliners generally preferring to use fuel cooled oil-coolers to warm the fuel prior it reaching the burners. Another option being the manual addition of an anti freeze in flight (eg HS125 aircraft). Military a/c, on the other hand, generally use fuel to blended with an icing inhibitor (FSII).
Engine Icing, on the other hand, is where you are getting ice build-up in the engine intakes or inlet guide vanes (or, worse still, actually in the compressor(s) ) which results in the engine becoming 'choked' leading to a compressor surge or, worse still, a compressor stall. In the later case a locked-in surge may occur leading to extreme temperature damage to the compressor.
So in the specific case of G-YMMM, as the super-cooled-dissolved-water-laden fuel was drawn into fuel pipes during cruise and decent, slushy ice accreted on the surfaces but there was not sufficient flow to draw it further to the engines. However during final approach when more power was demanded, the flow rates increased and the ice did move to the engines: all at once! Blocking the FCOC and starving the engines.
FSII AIUI will not affect the fuel waxing point (called "freeze point" in the specs), but will lower the water icing point.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
There is a huge difference between Engine Icing and Fuel Icing!
In fact the only commonality is the word 'icing'.
Let me explain.
Aviation Kerosene tends to go 'waxy' at low temperature as ice crystals form in it. This is Fuel Icing. This means that it does not flow well nor ignite well - worst case scenario is an engine flame-out. In the Civilian world the basic fuel has no Icing Inhibitors added to it, airliners generally preferring to use fuel cooled oil-coolers to warm the fuel prior it reaching the burners. Another option being the manual addition of an anti freeze in flight (eg HS125 aircraft). Military a/c, on the other hand, generally use fuel to blended with an icing inhibitor (FSII).
Engine Icing, on the other hand, is where you are getting ice build-up in the engine intakes or inlet guide vanes (or, worse still, actually in the compressor(s) ) which results in the engine becoming 'choked' leading to a compressor surge or, worse still, a compressor stall. In the later case a locked-in surge may occur leading to extreme temperature damage to the compressor.
I've only worked on the newer 125's (800b's/XP's and 1000's) but how do you mean manually adding fuel additive during flight? Like the TKS? Interesting stuffIn fact the only commonality is the word 'icing'.
Let me explain.
Aviation Kerosene tends to go 'waxy' at low temperature as ice crystals form in it. This is Fuel Icing. This means that it does not flow well nor ignite well - worst case scenario is an engine flame-out. In the Civilian world the basic fuel has no Icing Inhibitors added to it, airliners generally preferring to use fuel cooled oil-coolers to warm the fuel prior it reaching the burners. Another option being the manual addition of an anti freeze in flight (eg HS125 aircraft). Military a/c, on the other hand, generally use fuel to blended with an icing inhibitor (FSII).
Engine Icing, on the other hand, is where you are getting ice build-up in the engine intakes or inlet guide vanes (or, worse still, actually in the compressor(s) ) which results in the engine becoming 'choked' leading to a compressor surge or, worse still, a compressor stall. In the later case a locked-in surge may occur leading to extreme temperature damage to the compressor.
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