A suitable daily drive?
Discussion
Hello Everyone,
I've just registered on this site after looking through a few posts on restoration and general running of the 'M' range of cars. Before I ask about them, let me tell you a little about me. I live with my wife, two daughters (12yo step daughter, and 3 month old) and dog in Lincolnshire. I turned 40 earlier this year and am in my last year of service with the RAF, opting to retire after 23 years service. I'm having at least 2 years out of work to look after our youngest and the dog, so I'll be a "stay at home Dad", living on my modest pension and wife's income. I'm a petrol head (I've owned 57 cars and proudly state that only one was a diesel!) and can wield a set of spanners (I'm an aircraft technician with a mechanical bias).
The garage currently has our S1 Exige sitting on wooden blocks while I undertake a suspension refresh, and my daily drive is a Panda 100hp which is a hoot to drive. My wife has a Passat Estate, and there is a motorcycle in there too. Now, to my questions....
My father owned a Taimar for a few years, it was on an S plate and was a very 70's brown with cream band. It was an immaculate car, as he isn't one to get the spanners out, preferring to let specialists do the work. It was generally reliable, only having an issue with the differential in the 8 years or so he owned it as a third car. As a retirement gift to myself I'm considering replacing the Panda with an M series TVR, probably a Taimar or 3000M and would really benefit from your advice.
I'd like to know where I can find out more information about model history, what to look for and parts availability. I'd like to know guide prices for a car I can run daily and what I should do to the car to improve it (if required) to be reliable for the drive to feed the ducks or do the weekly shopping. I hope you don't see this as a travesty, I see a car as a machine, beautifully engineered and purposeful generally, but it still should fulfill a function as well as deliver driving pleasure. My Dad has a Series One flat floor E-Type, a Triumph GT6 and one of the last MG Midgets off the production line which he bought new, but they hardly get used, which to me is just a waste. I'm sure he is happy in the knowledge that they're just there though!
Enough of my rambling, I'll let you guys talk to me about TVR's and hopefully I'll find a suitable daily drive.
Cheers,
Kurt
I've just registered on this site after looking through a few posts on restoration and general running of the 'M' range of cars. Before I ask about them, let me tell you a little about me. I live with my wife, two daughters (12yo step daughter, and 3 month old) and dog in Lincolnshire. I turned 40 earlier this year and am in my last year of service with the RAF, opting to retire after 23 years service. I'm having at least 2 years out of work to look after our youngest and the dog, so I'll be a "stay at home Dad", living on my modest pension and wife's income. I'm a petrol head (I've owned 57 cars and proudly state that only one was a diesel!) and can wield a set of spanners (I'm an aircraft technician with a mechanical bias).
The garage currently has our S1 Exige sitting on wooden blocks while I undertake a suspension refresh, and my daily drive is a Panda 100hp which is a hoot to drive. My wife has a Passat Estate, and there is a motorcycle in there too. Now, to my questions....
My father owned a Taimar for a few years, it was on an S plate and was a very 70's brown with cream band. It was an immaculate car, as he isn't one to get the spanners out, preferring to let specialists do the work. It was generally reliable, only having an issue with the differential in the 8 years or so he owned it as a third car. As a retirement gift to myself I'm considering replacing the Panda with an M series TVR, probably a Taimar or 3000M and would really benefit from your advice.
I'd like to know where I can find out more information about model history, what to look for and parts availability. I'd like to know guide prices for a car I can run daily and what I should do to the car to improve it (if required) to be reliable for the drive to feed the ducks or do the weekly shopping. I hope you don't see this as a travesty, I see a car as a machine, beautifully engineered and purposeful generally, but it still should fulfill a function as well as deliver driving pleasure. My Dad has a Series One flat floor E-Type, a Triumph GT6 and one of the last MG Midgets off the production line which he bought new, but they hardly get used, which to me is just a waste. I'm sure he is happy in the knowledge that they're just there though!
Enough of my rambling, I'll let you guys talk to me about TVR's and hopefully I'll find a suitable daily drive.
Cheers,
Kurt
Edited by KurtB on Monday 25th November 13:52
Welcome Kurt,
Wishing you a happy semi-retirement.
If you're going to use one as a daily driver then I'd certainly be looking at a Taimar rather than an M. I enjoy our M but it's not ideal for shopping!
I know there are a number of folks around that do use Ms/Taimars as daily drives. Can't recall if anyone here does (sure they'll tell you!) but I know a couple of TVRCC folks do.
Good luck with the hunt, fantastic bunch of of folks here and you'll get lots of good advice. We may even agree on some of it!
Cheers,
Gary
Wishing you a happy semi-retirement.
If you're going to use one as a daily driver then I'd certainly be looking at a Taimar rather than an M. I enjoy our M but it's not ideal for shopping!
I know there are a number of folks around that do use Ms/Taimars as daily drives. Can't recall if anyone here does (sure they'll tell you!) but I know a couple of TVRCC folks do.
Good luck with the hunt, fantastic bunch of of folks here and you'll get lots of good advice. We may even agree on some of it!
Cheers,
Gary
GadgeS3C said:
Welcome Kurt,
Wishing you a happy semi-retirement.
If you're going to use one as a daily driver then I'd certainly be looking at a Taimar rather than an M. I enjoy our M but it's not ideal for shopping!
I know there are a number of folks around that do use Ms/Taimars as daily drives. Can't recall if anyone here does (sure they'll tell you!) but I know a couple of TVRCC folks do.
Good luck with the hunt, fantastic bunch of of folks here and you'll get lots of good advice. We may even agree on some of it!
Cheers,
Gary
Gary is spot on there Wishing you a happy semi-retirement.
If you're going to use one as a daily driver then I'd certainly be looking at a Taimar rather than an M. I enjoy our M but it's not ideal for shopping!
I know there are a number of folks around that do use Ms/Taimars as daily drives. Can't recall if anyone here does (sure they'll tell you!) but I know a couple of TVRCC folks do.
Good luck with the hunt, fantastic bunch of of folks here and you'll get lots of good advice. We may even agree on some of it!
Cheers,
Gary
Just be Patient and the right car will come along
There are several options
1, Buy one that has an MOT but is really a rolling restoration budget 4k to 6k
2, Buy one that someone has done a restoration at home to a reasonable standard and is now trying to move on 8k to 10k
3,Buy one that has had a complete professional restoration where the cost of restoration will have been probably twice the cost of the value of the car 12k to 15k
The third option does not come on the market often as you would not spend 25k on a restoration and then move it on for a big loss but sometimes situations change and it can happen.
Sounds like your not going to want it to be off the road often as she will be a daily driver and you may not want to have the Panda as well although may make sense to have the Panda as back up until your happy that the Taimar is Reliable.
Option 1 you need to insure that the chassis is sound and look carefully at the areas at the rear above the differential you wont be able to see the very top but rest assured that if its the original chassis and still sitting on the original felt the top will have suffered and along with the outriggers will be the first thing to go.
You may find one where the outriggers have been replaced and the chassis hand painted to make it look good but if the car has never had a new one or had a body off restoration and the original chassis repaired then rest assured it will at some point especially once you start using it in all weathers.
Good Luck Good Choice and Welcome to the wonderful mad world of Piston Heads
Andrew
Hi Kurt,
I have an original unrestored Taimar that I use most days for work, it is both practical and reliable. It has upgraded brakes and electronic ignition. I steam clean and waxoyl the original chassis every year and it is fine, the original felt pads are still in place at the rear, and there is no sign of rot, I do spray/soak them with thinned waxoyl when I do the chassis.
The only issue I have is that it leaks! In heavy rain it comes in through the doors! So I have no floor mats, and the days I do not use it are the damp misty drizzle days where steaming up is a pain, as the heater blower is ineffective.
I also have two children, and this represents another restriction, since I cannot use it recreationally in the summer unless I plan well in advance and have a good excuse not to take the boys, or take just one!
Sunny day spontaneity is out of the question.
Unless I get up early and escape.....!
Clive.
I have an original unrestored Taimar that I use most days for work, it is both practical and reliable. It has upgraded brakes and electronic ignition. I steam clean and waxoyl the original chassis every year and it is fine, the original felt pads are still in place at the rear, and there is no sign of rot, I do spray/soak them with thinned waxoyl when I do the chassis.
The only issue I have is that it leaks! In heavy rain it comes in through the doors! So I have no floor mats, and the days I do not use it are the damp misty drizzle days where steaming up is a pain, as the heater blower is ineffective.
I also have two children, and this represents another restriction, since I cannot use it recreationally in the summer unless I plan well in advance and have a good excuse not to take the boys, or take just one!
Sunny day spontaneity is out of the question.
Unless I get up early and escape.....!
Clive.
dryden said:
Hi Kurt,
I have an original unrestored Taimar that I use most days for work, it is both practical and reliable. It has upgraded brakes and electronic ignition. I steam clean and waxoyl the original chassis every year and it is fine, the original felt pads are still in place at the rear, and there is no sign of rot, I do spray/soak them with thinned waxoyl when I do the chassis.
The only issue I have is that it leaks! In heavy rain it comes in through the doors! So I have no floor mats, and the days I do not use it are the damp misty drizzle days where steaming up is a pain, as the heater blower is ineffective.
I also have two children, and this represents another restriction, since I cannot use it recreationally in the summer unless I plan well in advance and have a good excuse not to take the boys, or take just one!
Sunny day spontaneity is out of the question.
Unless I get up early and escape.....!
Clive.
That's great to hear Clive I suspect yours is the exception rather than the rule as most cars have had a hard life at some point.I have an original unrestored Taimar that I use most days for work, it is both practical and reliable. It has upgraded brakes and electronic ignition. I steam clean and waxoyl the original chassis every year and it is fine, the original felt pads are still in place at the rear, and there is no sign of rot, I do spray/soak them with thinned waxoyl when I do the chassis.
The only issue I have is that it leaks! In heavy rain it comes in through the doors! So I have no floor mats, and the days I do not use it are the damp misty drizzle days where steaming up is a pain, as the heater blower is ineffective.
I also have two children, and this represents another restriction, since I cannot use it recreationally in the summer unless I plan well in advance and have a good excuse not to take the boys, or take just one!
Sunny day spontaneity is out of the question.
Unless I get up early and escape.....!
Clive.
It is the way we will go with the Taimar when she is finished as she will be a daily driver rather than a Garage Queen and its intended to be a car that will never be sold just refreshed when needed.
Andrew
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your warm welcomes and Clive I appreciate your honesty! I've owned a Midget before and the fact that the blower wasn't the best reminded me that classics have their foibles. I'm prepared to put up with a degree of discomfort (I own an early Exige after all!), and as the car will live in a garage, it will only have to deal with the wet quite infrequently. It may be worth an upgrade with a modern alternative to the ineffective blower, maybe encased in the original heater box. I'll look into that if/when I get one.
Andrew, I think I'm aiming for the middle of the range there. I think retaining the Panda for a little while would be ideal, but in practise I'd need to free up the funds to be able to afford the TVR. I have a long haired general that I need to convince of the practicalities and that includes the purchase price.
Gary, I think you're right about the Taimar, it is perhaps the better practical solution for day to day running.
Can I ask what isn't available spares wise? I mean if I buy a car with a transmission issue (engine/gearbox/diff), is it all out there?
Who supplies parts?
What REALISTIC mpg can I expect on a run (I'm not really put off by high mpg, I just need an idea)?
I'll post other questions as I think of them, in the meantime I'm going hunting for Taimars...
Anyone with a Taimar want a Panda???!!???
Kind regards,
Kurt
Thank you for your warm welcomes and Clive I appreciate your honesty! I've owned a Midget before and the fact that the blower wasn't the best reminded me that classics have their foibles. I'm prepared to put up with a degree of discomfort (I own an early Exige after all!), and as the car will live in a garage, it will only have to deal with the wet quite infrequently. It may be worth an upgrade with a modern alternative to the ineffective blower, maybe encased in the original heater box. I'll look into that if/when I get one.
Andrew, I think I'm aiming for the middle of the range there. I think retaining the Panda for a little while would be ideal, but in practise I'd need to free up the funds to be able to afford the TVR. I have a long haired general that I need to convince of the practicalities and that includes the purchase price.
Gary, I think you're right about the Taimar, it is perhaps the better practical solution for day to day running.
Can I ask what isn't available spares wise? I mean if I buy a car with a transmission issue (engine/gearbox/diff), is it all out there?
Who supplies parts?
What REALISTIC mpg can I expect on a run (I'm not really put off by high mpg, I just need an idea)?
I'll post other questions as I think of them, in the meantime I'm going hunting for Taimars...
Anyone with a Taimar want a Panda???!!???
Kind regards,
Kurt
KurtB said:
Gentlemen,
Gary, I think you're right about the Taimar, it is perhaps the better practical solution for day to day running.
Can I ask what isn't available spares wise? I mean if I buy a car with a transmission issue (engine/gearbox/diff), is it all out there?
Who supplies parts?
What REALISTIC mpg can I expect on a run (I'm not really put off by high mpg, I just need an idea)?
I'll post other questions as I think of them, in the meantime I'm going hunting for Taimars...
Anyone with a Taimar want a Panda???!!???
Kind regards,
Kurt
Kurt - the 3000M is fine - until you have to put something in the back! It's fine for occasional shopping but just a bit of a faff. Usually makes me swear a bit when I have to load it up for Le Mans trips!Gary, I think you're right about the Taimar, it is perhaps the better practical solution for day to day running.
Can I ask what isn't available spares wise? I mean if I buy a car with a transmission issue (engine/gearbox/diff), is it all out there?
Who supplies parts?
What REALISTIC mpg can I expect on a run (I'm not really put off by high mpg, I just need an idea)?
I'll post other questions as I think of them, in the meantime I'm going hunting for Taimars...
Anyone with a Taimar want a Panda???!!???
Kind regards,
Kurt
We're lucky to some excellent suppliers/restorers/repairers including: Adrian Venn - posts here as Adrian@, David Gerald, Steve Reid (Gamekeeper on here). Most stuff is available especially if you want to keep it going rather than stressing about originality.
MPG - I averaged 27mpg driving to Le Mans & back this year. That is in cruising mode - I'm sure sub-20 is easily available
Gary
Adrian@,
You're the second person to suggest a 2.9S (one was via email), but I need to say I have no interest in that particular model. I don't want to cause offence, but it's really not a good looking car IMHO (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all). I'm pretty sure it's going to be an M, more than likely a Taimar, unless a 3000M pops up at the right time, place and price.
I'm happy to keep it running well and originality is important to a degree, but I'm not fussed about having a period radio or the correct mild steel exhaust, original spec tyres etc. I'd rather have safer/more durable/practical alternative parts that can be returned to original spec if required.
Cheers,
Kurt
You're the second person to suggest a 2.9S (one was via email), but I need to say I have no interest in that particular model. I don't want to cause offence, but it's really not a good looking car IMHO (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all). I'm pretty sure it's going to be an M, more than likely a Taimar, unless a 3000M pops up at the right time, place and price.
I'm happy to keep it running well and originality is important to a degree, but I'm not fussed about having a period radio or the correct mild steel exhaust, original spec tyres etc. I'd rather have safer/more durable/practical alternative parts that can be returned to original spec if required.
Cheers,
Kurt
KurtB said:
Adrian@,
You're the second person to suggest a 2.9S (one was via email), but I need to say I have no interest in that particular model. I don't want to cause offence, but it's really not a good looking car IMHO (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all). I'm pretty sure it's going to be an M, more than likely a Taimar, unless a 3000M pops up at the right time, place and price.
I'm happy to keep it running well and originality is important to a degree, but I'm not fussed about having a period radio or the correct mild steel exhaust, original spec tyres etc. I'd rather have safer/more durable/practical alternative parts that can be returned to original spec if required.
Cheers,
Kurt
As all the forum will tell you, I am THE die hard M series fan, my business and life revolves around the things, I own a Vixen and 4 different versions of the M series, BUT I also own a 500 Griff and 500 Chim, cars that could be used every single day (I don't as my brother and sister have them on loan)...An M used EVERY day(say,10,000 mls per year) can cost as much as a Cerbera to run (you really don't want the running cost of a Cerbera), given that your parts bin for the car (that is the OE item that it's built from) is perhaps IMHO 35000 mls and if you rebuild one, and replace every part new, then you have 3 and a bit years use before you start replacing items again!! the 2.9 parts bin is 100,000 and that gives nearly 9 year before you start again. The technology within the car (at design date, perhaps is 1968 for the M and 1988 for the 2.9S) then equates to refinement.You're the second person to suggest a 2.9S (one was via email), but I need to say I have no interest in that particular model. I don't want to cause offence, but it's really not a good looking car IMHO (beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all). I'm pretty sure it's going to be an M, more than likely a Taimar, unless a 3000M pops up at the right time, place and price.
I'm happy to keep it running well and originality is important to a degree, but I'm not fussed about having a period radio or the correct mild steel exhaust, original spec tyres etc. I'd rather have safer/more durable/practical alternative parts that can be returned to original spec if required.
Cheers,
Kurt
Just saying.
For everyday use the S will do the job so much better than an M (and is the evolution of it), a Griff or Chimp would do it better (parts bin of 150,000+).
IMHO of course.
Adrian@
+1 for Adrian's suggestion. The M is based around 60' and early 70's mechanical solutions, working but need a lot of attention. Consider a 2.9 S instead, the Rover V8 based cars is quite solid, but the ford V6's still a generation ahead.
And by danish tax standards, you can get a R6 cerbera for the same cost as I paid for the Focus 1.6 estate my wife is driving :-)
And by danish tax standards, you can get a R6 cerbera for the same cost as I paid for the Focus 1.6 estate my wife is driving :-)
Way back in 2000 I wanted to replace my daily driver Eurobox with classic style TVR. Budget didnt allow an S series, so bought my 2nd choice, a 79 Taimar that I still drive daily, 4000 miles a year.
Given the current lower price of S series & more modern mechanicals I would recommend that route, but I have noted your comments about S series.
However I find the Taimar a practical (hatchback is very useful) & fun car, 20-22mpg around town, 27 on motorway BUT its not a Eurobox!!
Parts fairly readily available from specialists already mentioned.
Lots of useful advice already on this forum over last few years, go for it, life is not a trial run!!
MikeS
Given the current lower price of S series & more modern mechanicals I would recommend that route, but I have noted your comments about S series.
However I find the Taimar a practical (hatchback is very useful) & fun car, 20-22mpg around town, 27 on motorway BUT its not a Eurobox!!
Parts fairly readily available from specialists already mentioned.
Lots of useful advice already on this forum over last few years, go for it, life is not a trial run!!
MikeS
An S is a canny car but what I would say is be very careful when inspecting a potential purchase..The rear end of the chassis is a bit more complex to repair properly if corroded. I think New / refurb chassis are now available so it shouldn't put you off..Just be careful.
I would stick to your guns though and buy the car you will love. Rather than settle for something you think will be mildly better as an everyday prospect. Thats what Kia Ceed's and ford Foci ?? are for.
N.
I would stick to your guns though and buy the car you will love. Rather than settle for something you think will be mildly better as an everyday prospect. Thats what Kia Ceed's and ford Foci ?? are for.
N.
Hello Kurt and welcome to the mad house. There's a few of us on here who are serving in the "mob", l myself have 5 years to reach said total but unfortunately my pension will only add up to pocket change so grafting in civil street for me
. I would suggest getting yourself down to a tvr specialist garage in your area. As l am based in Rutland, there are a couple l can mention. Willow sports cars in Newark and ppc at Melton. You will get to see most models of tvr " naked " with their bodies off. You will certainly find out then which one's are a "pig or dream" to work on and restore and they will give you lots of first hand info on all your requests on the cars.
Welcome
Mark
. I would suggest getting yourself down to a tvr specialist garage in your area. As l am based in Rutland, there are a couple l can mention. Willow sports cars in Newark and ppc at Melton. You will get to see most models of tvr " naked " with their bodies off. You will certainly find out then which one's are a "pig or dream" to work on and restore and they will give you lots of first hand info on all your requests on the cars. Welcome
Mark
Edited by portzi on Tuesday 26th November 23:04
Edited by portzi on Tuesday 26th November 23:09
Just get one of each
I'd agree the S has a far more "modern feel" to it but if it's the looks of the M / Taimar that does it for you with that gorgeous big back window them that's the car it will have to be!
..... not sure how a stay at home "house husband" with two kids is going to cope with any two seater?
Coping with a two two seat cars is EASY as my wife will be taking the 12yo to school and going off to work herself in her Passat estate. I will be left with the dog and our youngest, therefore I only NEED 2 seats and an area for our Irish Terrier to lie down. The Exige is for high days and is exclusively MY baby. Only I use it, alone. Phillpot, I like your image, please forgive what I'm about to say.
I'm going to be frank here. I'm baffled by motives. I would like an M series TVR. I don't want an S series, nor a Griffith, Chimaera, or a Trabant otherwise I would have found the relevant forum and posted there. I'm not afraid of running costs, the 3 Lotus cars I've owned haven't been blessed with reliability until I've breathed on them, worked out the problems and rectified them to provide me with the car I desired. I am willing to do the same with an M. I will persevere. If you're all saying the M is a lost cause, why do YOU bother??? I like the look of them. I don't like the S series. It's design isn't cohesive IMHO. With its long curvy bonnet and its flat blunt tail, windscreen pillars that are heavy at the base and fragile looking at the top, it just doesn't work. PLEASE stop trying to tell me what car YOU think I should have and tell me how I get a car that I want. It's that simple. I want an M, please bless me with the knowledge that you possess (as you have mostly been alluding to).
Mark (Portzi), that's sound advice. I'm a pleasant drive from Newark (I'm Caenby Corner), so may have a drive out. That 5 years will race by, as will the next few months until I'm out. Enjoy your time. I too will be grafting three years from now, the time off is only temporary sadly.
Regards,
Kurt
I'm going to be frank here. I'm baffled by motives. I would like an M series TVR. I don't want an S series, nor a Griffith, Chimaera, or a Trabant otherwise I would have found the relevant forum and posted there. I'm not afraid of running costs, the 3 Lotus cars I've owned haven't been blessed with reliability until I've breathed on them, worked out the problems and rectified them to provide me with the car I desired. I am willing to do the same with an M. I will persevere. If you're all saying the M is a lost cause, why do YOU bother??? I like the look of them. I don't like the S series. It's design isn't cohesive IMHO. With its long curvy bonnet and its flat blunt tail, windscreen pillars that are heavy at the base and fragile looking at the top, it just doesn't work. PLEASE stop trying to tell me what car YOU think I should have and tell me how I get a car that I want. It's that simple. I want an M, please bless me with the knowledge that you possess (as you have mostly been alluding to).
Mark (Portzi), that's sound advice. I'm a pleasant drive from Newark (I'm Caenby Corner), so may have a drive out. That 5 years will race by, as will the next few months until I'm out. Enjoy your time. I too will be grafting three years from now, the time off is only temporary sadly.
Regards,
Kurt
Ok then . But we are just being true in pointing out the faults of a average m for a daily driver with two kids and a dog!!! But I'm glad you still need an m. Welcome to the mad house and have fun ,richard (I'm sure if you can keep old metal fly a tvr will be a pice of cake!!!! )
Edited by griff 200 on Wednesday 27th November 07:40
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