Where is motorsport going - what will survive?
Discussion
Looking at the news recently we have teams pulling out of various forms of high-profile motorsport beacuse car manufacturers simply do not have the money to compete. It has also been said that they don't get enough out of the motorsport (presumably sales and brand prestige?) to make it worthwhile.
So where is that going to leave motorsport - will F1 continue - what'll happen to WRC if we say have 3 teams competeing ?
Maybe there'll be a big return to grass roots stuff and low level or more local motorsport?
Thoughts anyone?
So where is that going to leave motorsport - will F1 continue - what'll happen to WRC if we say have 3 teams competeing ?
Maybe there'll be a big return to grass roots stuff and low level or more local motorsport?
Thoughts anyone?
quite frankley i couldnt give a shit about the major motorsport events in this country be it WRC or F1. They have all chased the money at the expense of amateurs or semi-professional teams and deserve to fail because of it. It would be a shame to see F1 die but if it did, maybe the people at the top would finally understand why it has failed and do something to change it?!
Thankfully, I dont see the knock on effects threatening the future of club racing and that is more important to me in comparison to whether 100,000 people get to watch the Facrial One race at Silverstone each year. I only hope that more people realise there is more to motorsport that F1 and WRC and do visit places like Oulton Park and Donnington... A look through the calender sent out with the Blue Book by the MSA shows there are an abundance of events each week which people can enter, many in their daily road car be it a sprint, an autotest or a PCT.
I think people like Martin Brundle and James Allen should actually be telling the F1 viewers about motorsport in this country, they have the target audience, why not just say "hey, you could be a racing driver too, go to this website and find out more..." during all the boring bits of an f1 race...Seems wierd to me why they dont?!?
The motorsport industry in this Country will survive without F1 or WRC and organisaions such as the BARC and the BRSCC will continue to promote good, affordable championships for competitors and spectators.
Thankfully, I dont see the knock on effects threatening the future of club racing and that is more important to me in comparison to whether 100,000 people get to watch the Facrial One race at Silverstone each year. I only hope that more people realise there is more to motorsport that F1 and WRC and do visit places like Oulton Park and Donnington... A look through the calender sent out with the Blue Book by the MSA shows there are an abundance of events each week which people can enter, many in their daily road car be it a sprint, an autotest or a PCT.
I think people like Martin Brundle and James Allen should actually be telling the F1 viewers about motorsport in this country, they have the target audience, why not just say "hey, you could be a racing driver too, go to this website and find out more..." during all the boring bits of an f1 race...Seems wierd to me why they dont?!?
The motorsport industry in this Country will survive without F1 or WRC and organisaions such as the BARC and the BRSCC will continue to promote good, affordable championships for competitors and spectators.
The Wiz said:
Still my first love is Historic Racing and that seems to be getting stronger and stronger.
I fully agree with you.
I have started my interest in Motorsport in 1976 with
bike longdistance races, followed by Formula One and Touring/Sportscar races between 1978 and 1994.
In 1995 I luckyly got involved into Historic Racing
and this changed my life completely. I started to collect o/p motoring literature and taking photographs.
In 2001 I became freelance motoring photographer, well it's very difficult to get enough money out of it but
it's a real pleasure to combine my passion for classic cars, independent travelling and photography.
It sometimes happens that I cover events with modern cars like the FIA-GT, LMES or DTM... but I really feel
quite unhappy doing this, so I will stop this now. The
only event which I cannot get upset from is the 24H of Le Mans which I've covered 25x over the previous 27 years.
This is a list of events which I highly recomment:
historic competition rallies:
"Tour Auto" (F)
"Modena Cento Ore Classic" (I)
"Tour de Espana" (E)
Goodwood Festival of Speed
Goodwood Circuit Revival
Le Mans Classic (but I miss the comp. spirit of LM)
Concours d'Elegance Paleis Het Loo, Apeldoorn (NL)
FOC UK National Meet & Concours (for members only!)
...and of course some clubevents to meet "the right people".
I really appreciate to see that more and more young
people get involved in Historic Racing and the UK (of course) is the best place to live having that passion.
Helmut S. (Germany/unfortunately)
>> Edited by classicsincamera on Tuesday 9th November 10:30
Agree with the above. If you discount sportscar racing, modern motorsport has disappeared up its own fundament in the pursuit of cash. It is time for a fall.
I do think club motorsport has been affected by this though - it`s much more expensive, in real terms, than it ever has been and is currently blighted by an excess of championships and boring one-make series (and low crowd numbers).
Surely it`s no surprise that historic racing is on the up - the events tend to be better organised and more pleasant whilst the racing has real diversity in terms of the type of people and the type of cars. The other important fact is that historic racing cars have a residual value which can dramatically change the overall economic picture.
I suspect that many people in historic motorsport would traditionally have been involved in a more contemporary scene.Surely someone (RACMSA) should look at some of the lessons and learn?
I do think club motorsport has been affected by this though - it`s much more expensive, in real terms, than it ever has been and is currently blighted by an excess of championships and boring one-make series (and low crowd numbers).
Surely it`s no surprise that historic racing is on the up - the events tend to be better organised and more pleasant whilst the racing has real diversity in terms of the type of people and the type of cars. The other important fact is that historic racing cars have a residual value which can dramatically change the overall economic picture.
I suspect that many people in historic motorsport would traditionally have been involved in a more contemporary scene.Surely someone (RACMSA) should look at some of the lessons and learn?
Having read all your comments with interest, as someone who has been involved in running club race meetings and trying to get a sports racing series to run for some years, I thought you may like to concider that we have now reached the point that amateur club competitors now subsidise the so called professional championships and their drivers, both by supporting these championships and by funding the circuits their entry fees (which almost all goes to the circuits in the form of circuit hire fees)which the cicuits then use to pay the so called better(sic) events. In almost every other area of event organisation that I have been involved in money goes the other way. Could this explain the slow reduction in competitor numbers and loss of marshals?
griff2be said:
My first race in the Tuscan Challenge was at Rockingham last year. There were 44,000 spectators.
It seemed quite bizarre that I had to pay £400 in entry fees to race there.
The economics/cash flows of the sport are truly odd!
I have often struggled to understand the economics of club motor racing.
So a bunch of chaps spend a mint on their cars, more chaps to help them, consumables and give up their time to drive round a circuit with some other like-minded chaps as quickly as they can go.
Understandably this is quite exciting to watch. So its possible to charge to see it.
You'd have thought that the circuit would need some money to keep up its facilities and the "chaps" would need some money to keep up their cars.
But no.
The "chaps" don't get a bean and must convince some like-minded (but lily-livered
) other chaps to give them some money so they can keep up their cars and even PAY FOR THE PRIVELIGE OF ENTERTAINING THE CROWDS! BIZARRE! What amazes me is that anyone does the sponsoring!
What amazes me is that enyone wants to race - given the inequity of the situation from the drivers' or teams point of view.
I have resolved to take up going to see more "club" level motorsport in an attempt to support it. I've found its just as exciting and can be a good deal more civilised.
The same thing always ocurred to me while trailering my car away after a days racing. Normally thinking about what I could do to extract a bit more time from the old banger, but that most of the cash had gone on entry fees and running costs....
Then there was the time when a well known Japanese tyre manufacturer offered the entire series a pseudo sponsorship deal, we bought their tyres (at a slightly reduced cost), put their stickers on our cars and if we finished in the the top three of the class for the season then we got £50.......I declined their offer....
Really quite strange how it all works, I always thought that the most important people on the grid were the 2/3 behind the front runners, as without them you would never have any series at all. However, these people never got/get barley any recognition for the job they do in supporting the given series week in week out.
Then there was the time when a well known Japanese tyre manufacturer offered the entire series a pseudo sponsorship deal, we bought their tyres (at a slightly reduced cost), put their stickers on our cars and if we finished in the the top three of the class for the season then we got £50.......I declined their offer....
Really quite strange how it all works, I always thought that the most important people on the grid were the 2/3 behind the front runners, as without them you would never have any series at all. However, these people never got/get barley any recognition for the job they do in supporting the given series week in week out.
Yes, that same thing has always made me wonder. Some tracks/'series are worse than others in this respect - but it's fair to say that in a lot of cases the cost/track time ratio isn't too favourable for local/national level racers because of hefty entry fees and other costs forced upon them by the race organizers.
Over here, I see the big manfacturer-backed one make racing series have headed race meetings since the (near-)demise of FIA-style touring car and single seater championships, and TBH I think it gives off the wrong signal to folks thinking of entering motorsport. Cue fourty-something Clio's or SEATs let loose at Zandvoort, at least fourty of them driven by kids - some of them of rich parents, others are soap stars or pop singers, a lot are kids of existing racing outfit's proprietors - who through sponsorship do not have to contribute a dime to their pastime, think it was totally unjust they were overlooked for the 2004 Ferrari F1 drive next to Schuey, and feel they need to prove it at the first corner, preferably by ramming their opponent off the track. For a couple of years, the Clio series were sponsored by a travel agency named Fly You, but I always interpreted the windscreen banners as
you.com, such is the standard of driving and sportmanship. What little there is left of privateer teams entering national racing is diminishing quickly - having to write off a a shell or a complete car every second event puts a sizeable dent in your budget. A racing incident is just that, but the deliberate attempts at pushing your opponent into the pitlane wall or make him/her do a barrel roll defy belief.
As a spectator - If I want to see banger racing, there's enough venues out there to cater for that. I want to see big fields, preferably made out of as many makes and types of cars as possible provided they're reasonably competitive with each other, slugging it out on sheer speed and skill. That is why I find watching clubman level racing, historic racing or GT/endurance racing much more satisfying to watch.
Personally, I think basic respect and courtesy (up to a point) towards your competitors and their material should be the first thing an 'entry' level racing series should communicate to teams and drivers. For privateers that make a lot of sacrifices to 'make ends meet'over a season, it's very frustrating to end up in a demolition derby, and I reckon that there's a quite sizeable potential of true amateurs of the sport, that love cars and driving (you can recognize them often because they are racing a car they have 'feel' for rather than the established fastest/cheapest/simplest car in the class, which adds to the appeal of a series) but find the step up from track days, license training to actually racing a bit steep.
For spectators, it's not really important whether the cars in a seires lap the track in 2'00" or 2'10". But seeing either big fields of identical hotted-up shopping trolleys (taken for face value) or ones consisting of a dozen cars, two of which retire at the first corner because of adhering to a stict 2-litre FIA Touring Car format hat drives costs up enormously, does not really entice the public. On the other end, the Dutch Supercar Challenge employing a rather liberal format along the lines of Belcar (just three classes based on power/weight ratio), is going from strength to strength here with lots of halfway interesting cars entering and has proven to be a favourite of the audience.
Over here, I see the big manfacturer-backed one make racing series have headed race meetings since the (near-)demise of FIA-style touring car and single seater championships, and TBH I think it gives off the wrong signal to folks thinking of entering motorsport. Cue fourty-something Clio's or SEATs let loose at Zandvoort, at least fourty of them driven by kids - some of them of rich parents, others are soap stars or pop singers, a lot are kids of existing racing outfit's proprietors - who through sponsorship do not have to contribute a dime to their pastime, think it was totally unjust they were overlooked for the 2004 Ferrari F1 drive next to Schuey, and feel they need to prove it at the first corner, preferably by ramming their opponent off the track. For a couple of years, the Clio series were sponsored by a travel agency named Fly You, but I always interpreted the windscreen banners as
you.com, such is the standard of driving and sportmanship. What little there is left of privateer teams entering national racing is diminishing quickly - having to write off a a shell or a complete car every second event puts a sizeable dent in your budget. A racing incident is just that, but the deliberate attempts at pushing your opponent into the pitlane wall or make him/her do a barrel roll defy belief. As a spectator - If I want to see banger racing, there's enough venues out there to cater for that. I want to see big fields, preferably made out of as many makes and types of cars as possible provided they're reasonably competitive with each other, slugging it out on sheer speed and skill. That is why I find watching clubman level racing, historic racing or GT/endurance racing much more satisfying to watch.
Personally, I think basic respect and courtesy (up to a point) towards your competitors and their material should be the first thing an 'entry' level racing series should communicate to teams and drivers. For privateers that make a lot of sacrifices to 'make ends meet'over a season, it's very frustrating to end up in a demolition derby, and I reckon that there's a quite sizeable potential of true amateurs of the sport, that love cars and driving (you can recognize them often because they are racing a car they have 'feel' for rather than the established fastest/cheapest/simplest car in the class, which adds to the appeal of a series) but find the step up from track days, license training to actually racing a bit steep.
For spectators, it's not really important whether the cars in a seires lap the track in 2'00" or 2'10". But seeing either big fields of identical hotted-up shopping trolleys (taken for face value) or ones consisting of a dozen cars, two of which retire at the first corner because of adhering to a stict 2-litre FIA Touring Car format hat drives costs up enormously, does not really entice the public. On the other end, the Dutch Supercar Challenge employing a rather liberal format along the lines of Belcar (just three classes based on power/weight ratio), is going from strength to strength here with lots of halfway interesting cars entering and has proven to be a favourite of the audience.
Totally agree. We raced hard but fairly as the vast majority of us prepared and funded our racing. Even when I got collected by a guy I had struck up a friendship with through the racing, he offered to assist with the repairs to my car, by welding in the new panels and having a fellow competitor spray it for me. It was all good clean fun.
Now when I watch the BTCC I am apalled at the complete lack of respect for any fellow competitor. All passing moves seem to start with a shove up the back coming into the corner, and finsih with the pass being made while the guy who was in front fights to catch an enormous slide. This style has filtered down into most of the one make championships were a passing normally ends in two cars being damaged.
I would love to see the end of these "lawnmower" championships and a return to proper Clubmna racing, but where the clubman gets a fair crack of the whip rather than being the whipping boy.
Now when I watch the BTCC I am apalled at the complete lack of respect for any fellow competitor. All passing moves seem to start with a shove up the back coming into the corner, and finsih with the pass being made while the guy who was in front fights to catch an enormous slide. This style has filtered down into most of the one make championships were a passing normally ends in two cars being damaged.
I would love to see the end of these "lawnmower" championships and a return to proper Clubmna racing, but where the clubman gets a fair crack of the whip rather than being the whipping boy.
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