Cayenne starting issue
Discussion
Over the last week, my Cayenne has taken a couple of attempts to start.
The first time, I hadn't used it for 3-4 days. It turned over for about a second and then stopped - a bit like the battery was flat, but it was quite a sudden stop. I then turned the key again - engine turned over for about a second and then fired as usual.
This morning, same thing. I used the car Monday so it's only had one day of rest. Turned over for less than a second and then stopped. Turned it again, and started up as usual. Volt meter goes straight up to around 14, so at least the alternator is working.
I'm not convinced it's the battery for a couple of reasons. For one thing, I stuck a Bosch 110A battery in about 8 months ago so it should still be absolutely fine. Plus, in September I left the car for 12 days and it fired straight up when I got back. Admittedly most journeys it gets are short - and with heated seats / steering wheel and lights there will be a drain on it now. But the fact that it does turn over fine the second time and start makes me doubt it's the battery that's causing it to suddenly stop spinning the starter.
Could it be the starter that's on the way out? It's never sounded like it spins very quickly even when I fitted the new battery, so I wonder if that could be the problem.
Any other ideas? I will check the battery output in a couple of days and can even stick it on charge - but if it is that then I guess I either got a duff one or I have a drain.
ETA : Found a multimeter at work and checked the battery voltage using the terminals in the engine bay. Showed 12.15v, so seems fine. Unless I have a major drain - and it recharged on the way to work (doubtful on a 15 min journey with lights, heated seat and steering wheel on) then it doesn't look like it's the battery.
The first time, I hadn't used it for 3-4 days. It turned over for about a second and then stopped - a bit like the battery was flat, but it was quite a sudden stop. I then turned the key again - engine turned over for about a second and then fired as usual.
This morning, same thing. I used the car Monday so it's only had one day of rest. Turned over for less than a second and then stopped. Turned it again, and started up as usual. Volt meter goes straight up to around 14, so at least the alternator is working.
I'm not convinced it's the battery for a couple of reasons. For one thing, I stuck a Bosch 110A battery in about 8 months ago so it should still be absolutely fine. Plus, in September I left the car for 12 days and it fired straight up when I got back. Admittedly most journeys it gets are short - and with heated seats / steering wheel and lights there will be a drain on it now. But the fact that it does turn over fine the second time and start makes me doubt it's the battery that's causing it to suddenly stop spinning the starter.
Could it be the starter that's on the way out? It's never sounded like it spins very quickly even when I fitted the new battery, so I wonder if that could be the problem.
Any other ideas? I will check the battery output in a couple of days and can even stick it on charge - but if it is that then I guess I either got a duff one or I have a drain.
ETA : Found a multimeter at work and checked the battery voltage using the terminals in the engine bay. Showed 12.15v, so seems fine. Unless I have a major drain - and it recharged on the way to work (doubtful on a 15 min journey with lights, heated seat and steering wheel on) then it doesn't look like it's the battery.
Edited by davek_964 on Wednesday 27th November 08:23
Had to replace my Cayenne S Halfords Battery under warranty. Like you car would not start, this was during the summer. Then ok until last week. Back to Halfords again, meter showed battery OK, voltage 11.7 but needs charge. I queried this with the techie and he said try starting it, would not start and volts now 8.9V. THey replaced the battery FOC. Seems the 15 journey to Halfods was giving the battery just enough charge to decieve the techie.
OK, thanks.
I'll leave the car a couple of days and see what the voltage shows - maybe it's not holding charge well. Somebody at work has suggested a poor earth strap which I'll also check.
I did just try starting it at lunchtime and it is a bit odd. This time is started first time - but, it initially started turning over very slowly and then seemed to speed up before it fired. Strange.
I'll leave the car a couple of days and see what the voltage shows - maybe it's not holding charge well. Somebody at work has suggested a poor earth strap which I'll also check.
I did just try starting it at lunchtime and it is a bit odd. This time is started first time - but, it initially started turning over very slowly and then seemed to speed up before it fired. Strange.
I can rule out the battery I think. Checked the connections when I got home (nice and tight) and checked voltage across battery - still 12.15v. Immediately after this wanted to move the car - and it did the same thing. This time, it didn't really turn over at all when I turned the key - stopped in a split second. Second turn - normal start. Very odd.
I can't see enough of the engine above or below to check earth lead (battery to chassis was good though). However I do have some jump leads so over the next few days I will use that between the post in the engine bay and the engine - the only decent point seems to be an engine mount. If that solves the problem, I reckon it's an earth strap. If it doesn't then either it's a dying starter motor or something more complicated - and either way it will be taking a trip to 9E!
I can't see enough of the engine above or below to check earth lead (battery to chassis was good though). However I do have some jump leads so over the next few days I will use that between the post in the engine bay and the engine - the only decent point seems to be an engine mount. If that solves the problem, I reckon it's an earth strap. If it doesn't then either it's a dying starter motor or something more complicated - and either way it will be taking a trip to 9E!
I suspected brake switch but think I've ruled that out. Because it usually turns over then stops I tried releasing the brake immediately after it starts turning over on a normal start. This has no effect - it carries on turning over and starts. So I think the brake switch affects the initial crank but won't cause the starter to stop once it's started.
Starter issue is my favourite - although I've tried it a few times tonight with a jumpered earth lead and it's behaved.
Starter issue is my favourite - although I've tried it a few times tonight with a jumpered earth lead and it's behaved.
Its not uncommon to have the starter fail on a Cayenne - usually affected by the vee pipes failing and flushing the starter which damages the motor but is not seen when the pipes are replaced as the coolant has run away. Cayennes should spin over quickly with a charged battery. I assume your car has a single battery network? Early models all had a two battery system (first few batches delivered to the UK had it standard) later cars had it as an option. If it has a two battery network the starter battery is in the boot floor.
If it works well (fast?) with a jumper we earth then I'd look at the earth lead first.
Having dealt with jump starting quite a few cars I can report that BMW V8's (possibly some 6's too, I can't remember) will never turn slowly, they either click-click-click, when there's not enough current getting through, then a moment later after wiggling the jump lead it'll spin over as fast as normal - so the motor seems pretty digital in it's operation dependent on the power available to it.
Having dealt with jump starting quite a few cars I can report that BMW V8's (possibly some 6's too, I can't remember) will never turn slowly, they either click-click-click, when there's not enough current getting through, then a moment later after wiggling the jump lead it'll spin over as fast as normal - so the motor seems pretty digital in it's operation dependent on the power available to it.
Used the jumper again this morning and started fine. Not convinced it turns over any quicker, but so far I have 100% success with the jump lead. Will see if that continues - but I must admit, even if it is that I'm wondering if I can be bothered to lie on a cold damp driveway at this time of year unbolting an engine under-tray to fit a new earth lead. Especially since I won't be able to fit it in this weekend and it's dark after work.
So I may dump it at 9E tomorrow - which has the added advantage that I can use one of my toy cars over the weekend.
So I may dump it at 9E tomorrow - which has the added advantage that I can use one of my toy cars over the weekend.
9E diagnosis is indeed the starter motor. I already knew how difficult that is to reach, so although it's fairly good news that it's been identified so quickly, it won't seem quite such good news when I see the bill 
Apparently, there is also a slight whiff of coolant from the front of the car. Supposedly, my coolant pipes were done before I got the car - but further investigation today should identify the cause. If it was the pipes it would at least explain why the starter has been struggling.
ETA : Confirmed my coolant pipes have been replaced. But Ken sent me a photo showing that most of the seals were leaking coolant - looks a bit of a mess! So they either weren't fitted that well, or the pipes were replaced but not the o-rings / gaskets etc. At least it highlights why it's best to use a mechanic you trust to do the job right in the first place!
Apparently, there is also a slight whiff of coolant from the front of the car. Supposedly, my coolant pipes were done before I got the car - but further investigation today should identify the cause. If it was the pipes it would at least explain why the starter has been struggling.
ETA : Confirmed my coolant pipes have been replaced. But Ken sent me a photo showing that most of the seals were leaking coolant - looks a bit of a mess! So they either weren't fitted that well, or the pipes were replaced but not the o-rings / gaskets etc. At least it highlights why it's best to use a mechanic you trust to do the job right in the first place!
Edited by davek_964 on Monday 2nd December 14:12
Picked the car up this afternoon. Thanks to Ken / 9E for sorting it out so quickly with so little warning.
Big difference. When I started it to leave 9E, I didn't even hear the starter turn - it was literally a case of turn the key and the engine was instantly running. Once I got home I tried it again - and it only span very briefly (much less than previously) and was far faster than it's ever been. It sounded like a "normal" car starter, whereas it's always sounded slow to me even before this problem started.
Problem solved.
Big difference. When I started it to leave 9E, I didn't even hear the starter turn - it was literally a case of turn the key and the engine was instantly running. Once I got home I tried it again - and it only span very briefly (much less than previously) and was far faster than it's ever been. It sounded like a "normal" car starter, whereas it's always sounded slow to me even before this problem started.
Problem solved.
Based off this I'm worried about my starter now. It's a bit slow as described here. The battery is going flat though, if this is down to an issue or just too many short journeys I'm not sure.
Waiting for the aa at the moment and will get a jump pack to use for now until I can get it into Northway. The previous owner replaced the battery around 10 months ago so I'd be surprised if it was that.
Waiting for the aa at the moment and will get a jump pack to use for now until I can get it into Northway. The previous owner replaced the battery around 10 months ago so I'd be surprised if it was that.
My started has a dead spot, starts properly 7 out of 10 times but when it plays up it stops after a couple of turns, worse when battery a little low as less oomph to get past the problem. It does go second time however but won't one day! It's going in for a fix this Thurs.
If this is a repeat post from a 2013 post, apologies I didn't re read all.
Dw
If this is a repeat post from a 2013 post, apologies I didn't re read all.
Dw
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff