Had a Mito and didnt like it, now considering a Giulietta
Discussion
I got one of the launch Mito 155s in 2009 as an Alfa fan having owned a 1.6 147. It only lasted 12 months. To be fair it was replaced by a Cayman made possible by a change of job but I never really gelled with the Mito.
I hated the way it handled and couldnt get 155 horses to the tarmac and I found the seats unsupportive. I look back and think that Mito would have been a better car with less power.
Now im looking for a 10 grand five door hatch for the missus and cant bring myself to get an Audi or BMW. Would appreciate some opinions. Whats the 'best' engine for the Giulietta (would do 12-16k a year, not hung up on diesel or petrol). Thx
I hated the way it handled and couldnt get 155 horses to the tarmac and I found the seats unsupportive. I look back and think that Mito would have been a better car with less power.
Now im looking for a 10 grand five door hatch for the missus and cant bring myself to get an Audi or BMW. Would appreciate some opinions. Whats the 'best' engine for the Giulietta (would do 12-16k a year, not hung up on diesel or petrol). Thx
The later Mito 135 Multiair feels more resolved than the earlier cars but if you need 5 doors then it's a Giulietta. I've driven most variants of the Giulietta and my other half had a JTDm 1.6 for 2 years. Ironically it's the 1.6 diesel I would avoid - it's no better on mpg than the 2 litre and feels gutless under 2500rpm with very short gearing in the lower ratios. The 170 diesel would probably be my pick and whilst the Veloce trim looks better with the 17" alloys, the Lusso on 16" alloys is a lot more compliant and flows better down the road.
With regard to the range as a whole I find the seat squabs unsupportive, visibility is terrible bordering on dangerous and some of the interior plastics are a bit low rent. Overall though they're good value and reasonable fun to drive.
With regard to the range as a whole I find the seat squabs unsupportive, visibility is terrible bordering on dangerous and some of the interior plastics are a bit low rent. Overall though they're good value and reasonable fun to drive.
i signed up almost just to reply on it, having unloaded my Giulietta very recently.
a 2.0 JTDM with 18" wheels, leather, xenons
the good: comfortable, quiet cruiser, pretty solid 6.5L/100km mixed consumption...still very good in city...as low as 6.0L all highways
the bad: everything else
-Start-Stop unexplainably stops working at times.
-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
-Tactility and Design is inconsistent across the vehicle: radio, climate, steering wheel, windows, lights, etc, all look, feel, and finished differently. for the worse. (atleast the center switches are kinda "cool")
-Hidden rear door handle belongs to a 2000GBP Tata
Motor does not feel like 170hp. Certainty not 260lb-ft. Maybe not im not familiar with diesels, and the associated tall gearing that knocks down wheel torque, but it simply never 'goes'. Passing sometimes is sketchy because the tall gear doesnt apply that much torque to the roads at low-mid revs, and at 4000 revs it simply runs out of breath.
But the worst - the absolute worst - characteristic of the car, that clawed me at to finally dump the car after just a few months of ownership, is the shifter. Many people complain that the alum finish peels off the knob. And it does. But the shifting action is worse. It's heavy like a sportier car, but not precise like a sportier car. It's vague like an economy car, but not light like an economy car. Has a bit of heft, some resistance, and a very rubbery stop to the shifting motion. (Maybe a change of the bushing will help?). Often youre not certain whether its actually engaged 1st gear, combined with the Start&Stop, so you feel like a jackass holding up the traffic, or you clunk out of gear.
I bought it out of Alfa "lore", and for the looks.... and while its pretty its sadly not anywhere close to the 159 or Brera in prettiness to compensate for the deficiencies.
For reference I got out of a MK6 GTI, and now in a Megane RS, both of which are 10 times the car the Giulietta is.
sorry for being negative
a 2.0 JTDM with 18" wheels, leather, xenons
the good: comfortable, quiet cruiser, pretty solid 6.5L/100km mixed consumption...still very good in city...as low as 6.0L all highways
the bad: everything else
-Start-Stop unexplainably stops working at times.
-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
-Tactility and Design is inconsistent across the vehicle: radio, climate, steering wheel, windows, lights, etc, all look, feel, and finished differently. for the worse. (atleast the center switches are kinda "cool")
-Hidden rear door handle belongs to a 2000GBP Tata
Motor does not feel like 170hp. Certainty not 260lb-ft. Maybe not im not familiar with diesels, and the associated tall gearing that knocks down wheel torque, but it simply never 'goes'. Passing sometimes is sketchy because the tall gear doesnt apply that much torque to the roads at low-mid revs, and at 4000 revs it simply runs out of breath.
But the worst - the absolute worst - characteristic of the car, that clawed me at to finally dump the car after just a few months of ownership, is the shifter. Many people complain that the alum finish peels off the knob. And it does. But the shifting action is worse. It's heavy like a sportier car, but not precise like a sportier car. It's vague like an economy car, but not light like an economy car. Has a bit of heft, some resistance, and a very rubbery stop to the shifting motion. (Maybe a change of the bushing will help?). Often youre not certain whether its actually engaged 1st gear, combined with the Start&Stop, so you feel like a jackass holding up the traffic, or you clunk out of gear.
I bought it out of Alfa "lore", and for the looks.... and while its pretty its sadly not anywhere close to the 159 or Brera in prettiness to compensate for the deficiencies.
For reference I got out of a MK6 GTI, and now in a Megane RS, both of which are 10 times the car the Giulietta is.
sorry for being negative
Wow. Thanks for the honest answers. I was thinking of either the 170 petrol or diesel but all this feedback reminds me of the things I disliked about the Mito. Think I need to get a long test drive in one.
If im honest im drawn in by the looks of the Giuliettas on 17s and 18s, especially when you look at the beigeness that Bmw and Audi have to offer at 10k.
If im honest im drawn in by the looks of the Giuliettas on 17s and 18s, especially when you look at the beigeness that Bmw and Audi have to offer at 10k.
turboheads said:
i signed up almost just to reply on it, having unloaded my Giulietta very recently.
a 2.0 JTDM with 18" wheels, leather, xenons
the good: comfortable, quiet cruiser, pretty solid 6.5L/100km mixed consumption...still very good in city...as low as 6.0L all highways
the bad: everything else
-Start-Stop unexplainably stops working at times.
-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
-Tactility and Design is inconsistent across the vehicle: radio, climate, steering wheel, windows, lights, etc, all look, feel, and finished differently. for the worse. (atleast the center switches are kinda "cool")
-Hidden rear door handle belongs to a 2000GBP Tata
Motor does not feel like 170hp. Certainty not 260lb-ft. Maybe not im not familiar with diesels, and the associated tall gearing that knocks down wheel torque, but it simply never 'goes'. Passing sometimes is sketchy because the tall gear doesnt apply that much torque to the roads at low-mid revs, and at 4000 revs it simply runs out of breath.
But the worst - the absolute worst - characteristic of the car, that clawed me at to finally dump the car after just a few months of ownership, is the shifter. Many people complain that the alum finish peels off the knob. And it does. But the shifting action is worse. It's heavy like a sportier car, but not precise like a sportier car. It's vague like an economy car, but not light like an economy car. Has a bit of heft, some resistance, and a very rubbery stop to the shifting motion. (Maybe a change of the bushing will help?). Often youre not certain whether its actually engaged 1st gear, combined with the Start&Stop, so you feel like a jackass holding up the traffic, or you clunk out of gear.
I bought it out of Alfa "lore", and for the looks.... and while its pretty its sadly not anywhere close to the 159 or Brera in prettiness to compensate for the deficiencies.
For reference I got out of a MK6 GTI, and now in a Megane RS, both of which are 10 times the car the Giulietta is.
sorry for being negative
Everyone is entitled to their view, however to state the car does not feel like 170 horse is complete and utter claptrap! a 2.0 JTDM with 18" wheels, leather, xenons
the good: comfortable, quiet cruiser, pretty solid 6.5L/100km mixed consumption...still very good in city...as low as 6.0L all highways
the bad: everything else
-Start-Stop unexplainably stops working at times.
-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
-Tactility and Design is inconsistent across the vehicle: radio, climate, steering wheel, windows, lights, etc, all look, feel, and finished differently. for the worse. (atleast the center switches are kinda "cool")
-Hidden rear door handle belongs to a 2000GBP Tata
Motor does not feel like 170hp. Certainty not 260lb-ft. Maybe not im not familiar with diesels, and the associated tall gearing that knocks down wheel torque, but it simply never 'goes'. Passing sometimes is sketchy because the tall gear doesnt apply that much torque to the roads at low-mid revs, and at 4000 revs it simply runs out of breath.
But the worst - the absolute worst - characteristic of the car, that clawed me at to finally dump the car after just a few months of ownership, is the shifter. Many people complain that the alum finish peels off the knob. And it does. But the shifting action is worse. It's heavy like a sportier car, but not precise like a sportier car. It's vague like an economy car, but not light like an economy car. Has a bit of heft, some resistance, and a very rubbery stop to the shifting motion. (Maybe a change of the bushing will help?). Often youre not certain whether its actually engaged 1st gear, combined with the Start&Stop, so you feel like a jackass holding up the traffic, or you clunk out of gear.
I bought it out of Alfa "lore", and for the looks.... and while its pretty its sadly not anywhere close to the 159 or Brera in prettiness to compensate for the deficiencies.
For reference I got out of a MK6 GTI, and now in a Megane RS, both of which are 10 times the car the Giulietta is.
sorry for being negative
I've never met anyone before who has bemoaned the lack of performance from the 170 horse diesel or petrol for that matter. It's a thumper of an engine and pulls like a train in all gears, yes the engine doesn't rev much past 4,000 but then again it's a diesel!
As for the design layout of ; my only criticism is the lack of a footrest in manual cars and the fact the rear seats do not fold totally flat. I haven't paid lot of attention to the varying tactility of the interior plastics, I don't generally stroke them!
Alfahorn said:
Everyone is entitled to their view, however to state the car does not feel like 170 horse is complete and utter claptrap!
I've never met anyone before who has bemoaned the lack of performance from the 170 horse diesel or petrol for that matter. It's a thumper of an engine and pulls like a train in all gears, yes the engine doesn't rev much past 4,000 but then again it's a diesel!
As for the design layout of ; my only criticism is the lack of a footrest in manual cars and the fact the rear seats do not fold totally flat. I haven't paid lot of attention to the varying tactility of the interior plastics, I don't generally stroke them!
Maybe my perspective is distorted coming from a 240, 200, and now in a 250hp machine. But maybe it's also the way the power is distributed in the powerband. I've never met anyone before who has bemoaned the lack of performance from the 170 horse diesel or petrol for that matter. It's a thumper of an engine and pulls like a train in all gears, yes the engine doesn't rev much past 4,000 but then again it's a diesel!
As for the design layout of ; my only criticism is the lack of a footrest in manual cars and the fact the rear seats do not fold totally flat. I haven't paid lot of attention to the varying tactility of the interior plastics, I don't generally stroke them!
In the other cars they're concentrated up top - so downshifting (into vtec or otherwise) gives a burst of passing power. In the Alfa 170 there's not much up top both due to relatively lower torque output in that rpm range, and due to lower redline ceiling there's not much mechanical leverage provided by gearing either.
Long story short I feel less comfortable passing in narrow roads.
Sounds like you just don't 'get' diesels, some people don't. But I don't think your criticism is fair on the Alfa because the problem you describe with the engine is just simply how diesels are, some are worse than others but the Alfa JTDm is better than most at holding on to power. You mention a Vtec, there can be no Engine more opposite to a Diesel than one of those.
Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
velocemitch said:
Sounds like you just don't 'get' diesels, some people don't. But I don't think your criticism is fair on the Alfa because the problem you describe with the engine is just simply how diesels are, some are worse than others but the Alfa JTDm is better than most at holding on to power. You mention a Vtec, there can be no Engine more opposite to a Diesel than one of those.
Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
I have to say, if I didn't do 20,000 miles a year I would happily have gone for the multiair but it just wasn't financially viable. Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
velocemitch said:
Sounds like you just don't 'get' diesels, some people don't. But I don't think your criticism is fair on the Alfa because the problem you describe with the engine is just simply how diesels are, some are worse than others but the Alfa JTDm is better than most at holding on to power. You mention a Vtec, there can be no Engine more opposite to a Diesel than one of those.
Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
i think thats very much true. it was my first diesel and i wasnt expecting that much difference in terms of power delivery. all the other cars in the past having been low-displacement high-redline cars. the tranny may also be a one-off in behavior.Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
Alfahorn said:
velocemitch said:
Sounds like you just don't 'get' diesels, some people don't. But I don't think your criticism is fair on the Alfa because the problem you describe with the engine is just simply how diesels are, some are worse than others but the Alfa JTDm is better than most at holding on to power. You mention a Vtec, there can be no Engine more opposite to a Diesel than one of those.
Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
I have to say, if I didn't do 20,000 miles a year I would happily have gone for the multiair but it just wasn't financially viable. Agree about the difference in feel of the control surfaces, you wouldn't be the first to mention that.
Gearbox sounds like a duff one, mine is OK and a better box than my previous Car a BMW 1 series.
But what I would say is that good that the Multi Air is, it's not a rev happy Vtec type engine either. Sadly the only way they can get the economy and cleanliness they need out of Petrols is to give them similar characteristics as a diesel, high torque at low revs, but not much up top.
velocemitch said:
Yeah me too if it wasn't company policy that we drive stuff below 120g/m of CO2.
But what I would say is that good that the Multi Air is, it's not a rev happy Vtec type engine either. Sadly the only way they can get the economy and cleanliness they need out of Petrols is to give them similar characteristics as a diesel, high torque at low revs, but not much up top.
Indeed this true, however the multiair is more characterful than the diesel.But what I would say is that good that the Multi Air is, it's not a rev happy Vtec type engine either. Sadly the only way they can get the economy and cleanliness they need out of Petrols is to give them similar characteristics as a diesel, high torque at low revs, but not much up top.
When i bougth mine I test drove the 140 Alfa and the Golf 140 GT Sport - the golf felt wooly compared to the alfa and then I bought the 170bhp Alfa because I could 
In dynamic mode it teaches you to be "delicate" with your clutch control - but it is possible to drive it smoothly.
I have 2 gripes with the car, not left foot rest and that I drove it into a wall this morning... although I am not so sure I can blame the car for that....
I did get forced into buying BP deisel ultimate yesterday and the car seems to pick up better ever, although that could be a placebo effect...
In dynamic mode it teaches you to be "delicate" with your clutch control - but it is possible to drive it smoothly.
I have 2 gripes with the car, not left foot rest and that I drove it into a wall this morning... although I am not so sure I can blame the car for that....
I did get forced into buying BP deisel ultimate yesterday and the car seems to pick up better ever, although that could be a placebo effect...
turboheads said:
i signed up almost just to reply on it, having unloaded my Giulietta very recently.
-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
Erm WRONG.-same thing for the DNA switch. might as well, since ALL it does is remaps throttle to unusable levels of sensitivity (&supposedly lessened traction control)
DNA Changes the following:
Steering - Removes some assistance to steering goes heavier
Q2 Diff - Electronic Q2 diff becomes active
Engine Mapping - More torque is produced in Dynamic. The whole torque curve changes to you get more at lower revs too
Traction Control - Takes a back seat and much more leanient
Throttle response - Increased throttle response
Yes all it does is change the throttle
Well at least he didn't say it stiffened up the suspension and made it too uncomfortable... like many reviewers who had reviewed the car from a few miles away did!.;)
EDIT... you forgot the pre filled Brake thingy in Dynamic which makes you stand it on it's nose coming into corners!
You OK Johnathan, got any events planned?
EDIT... you forgot the pre filled Brake thingy in Dynamic which makes you stand it on it's nose coming into corners!
You OK Johnathan, got any events planned?
Pwig said:
Erm WRONG.
DNA Changes the following:
Steering - Removes some assistance to steering goes heavier
Q2 Diff - Electronic Q2 diff becomes active
Engine Mapping - More torque is produced in Dynamic. The whole torque curve changes to you get more at lower revs too
Traction Control - Takes a back seat and much more leanient
Throttle response - Increased throttle response
Yes all it does is change the throttle
Ah, yes, the wonderful Dynamic button that inexplicably refuses to turn on at times.DNA Changes the following:
Steering - Removes some assistance to steering goes heavier
Q2 Diff - Electronic Q2 diff becomes active
Engine Mapping - More torque is produced in Dynamic. The whole torque curve changes to you get more at lower revs too
Traction Control - Takes a back seat and much more leanient
Throttle response - Increased throttle response
Yes all it does is change the throttle
A heavier - yet still incommunicative and lifeless - steering does not "sporty" make.
An overly-sensitive torque map does not enhance the drive either. It just makes the pedal far too touchy - a note also made by reviews Vicky Henderson and Mat Watson.
"Dynamic" infers superior car control and response. The perceived end result is just a touchier pedal. Doesn't live up to the billing, if you ask me.
Guess I forgot to add something else that popped in my head about the car and controls: the electric window operations. Most cars have a 2 stage switch with a clear detent between normal mode and auto-up/down mode. In the Alfa there was no clear detent. If I want to crack the mirrors e.g. half down, it'll jump up and down and up and down because its not easy to feel out whether the windows are moving in auto-mode or or manual mode. It's all the little things that adds up poorly
Edited by turboheads on Friday 20th December 09:52
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