Tell me about 356s
Discussion
Hi there,
I have been on the lookout to pull the trigger on 356 ownership for some time now, been to see a couple of cars, but I'm really shocked about the deluded nature of the owners!
I went all the way up to Scotland to see one car, which was a pile of junk, then another on my doorstep on offer for a lot more money, which I also wouldn't give houseroom too.
Bubble anyone?
I have been on the lookout to pull the trigger on 356 ownership for some time now, been to see a couple of cars, but I'm really shocked about the deluded nature of the owners!
I went all the way up to Scotland to see one car, which was a pile of junk, then another on my doorstep on offer for a lot more money, which I also wouldn't give houseroom too.
Bubble anyone?
know idea of your budget. Paragon seem to have a nice one for sale
http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-356a-for-sal...
http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-356a-for-sal...
They're an incredibly simple car with an unusually high number of things to potentially throw up mega bills.
Depending on budget I'd suggest giving Andy Prill a call at MP&P. He's the smartest 456 guy I know and even if you're actively looking for a doer upper he'll know of a few cars.
I owe him one as I very nearly had a crack at one in the Silverstone auction at Race Retro in Feb - glad I didn't after I asked him about it at dinner and his list of issues with it went right through our starter and into the main course...
Depending on budget I'd suggest giving Andy Prill a call at MP&P. He's the smartest 456 guy I know and even if you're actively looking for a doer upper he'll know of a few cars.
I owe him one as I very nearly had a crack at one in the Silverstone auction at Race Retro in Feb - glad I didn't after I asked him about it at dinner and his list of issues with it went right through our starter and into the main course...
You'll find a group of owners and lots of knowledge over at http://www.ddk-online.com/
The 356 market is incredibly interesting, as others have observed.
The bodywork is complex, and difficult to restore properly, with lots of compound curves, and lead loading, and difficult access to the most rot prone parts, couple that with poor rustproofing from new, and poor repair work, and I can almost see why they command the value they do.
However, they werent' built in numbers which were so small, and most panels etc. are available, but properly qualified bodywork guys have never been cheap.
One guy I met proudly talked about having spent £15k on an engine rebuild, and used this to justify why he wanted £36k for his car...
Another had the front valance full of filler, the spare wheelwell with some of the worst welding I've ever seen, the paintwork microblistering, and the rest of the underside with underseal hanging off and surface rust etc. etc. This non runner (which I'm sure the big ends were shot,given the way the oil pressure dropped rapidly after cranking) was up for £24k...
Been posting on DDK forums, and heard a few horror stories about cars bought from dry states in the USA.
Seems like the only way of getting in there and buying something I can work with is going to involve a trip to the USA. Particularly tempting is the way that you 'only' pay 5% import duty, plus shipping costs.
I like to think that I'm no mug when it comes to buying classics, as I've built and enjoyed a few, including Beetles, but as Molly has observed, they seem to be a really difficult car to buy.
I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
By the logic of these 356 owners, my '74 TR6, which wants for nothing, and I would guage is an 8/10 car is worth a lot more than I think it is.
The bodywork is complex, and difficult to restore properly, with lots of compound curves, and lead loading, and difficult access to the most rot prone parts, couple that with poor rustproofing from new, and poor repair work, and I can almost see why they command the value they do.
However, they werent' built in numbers which were so small, and most panels etc. are available, but properly qualified bodywork guys have never been cheap.
One guy I met proudly talked about having spent £15k on an engine rebuild, and used this to justify why he wanted £36k for his car...
Another had the front valance full of filler, the spare wheelwell with some of the worst welding I've ever seen, the paintwork microblistering, and the rest of the underside with underseal hanging off and surface rust etc. etc. This non runner (which I'm sure the big ends were shot,given the way the oil pressure dropped rapidly after cranking) was up for £24k...
Been posting on DDK forums, and heard a few horror stories about cars bought from dry states in the USA.
Seems like the only way of getting in there and buying something I can work with is going to involve a trip to the USA. Particularly tempting is the way that you 'only' pay 5% import duty, plus shipping costs.
I like to think that I'm no mug when it comes to buying classics, as I've built and enjoyed a few, including Beetles, but as Molly has observed, they seem to be a really difficult car to buy.
I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
By the logic of these 356 owners, my '74 TR6, which wants for nothing, and I would guage is an 8/10 car is worth a lot more than I think it is.
"One guy I met proudly talked about having spent £15k on an engine rebuild, and used this to justify why he wanted £36k for his car..."
Not sure what your point is. A good rebuild by a name adds a lot of value over untouched engine that is past its best - and that is what they cost in the Porsche world. Don't ask me how I know :-(
drmark said:
"One guy I met proudly talked about having spent £15k on an engine rebuild, and used this to justify why he wanted £36k for his car..."
Not sure what your point is. A good rebuild by a name adds a lot of value over untouched engine that is past its best - and that is what they cost in the Porsche world. Don't ask me how I know :-(
Me neither - I'm eyeing up that car and the description seems honest and not out of order - or maybe I'm just used to 911s?Not sure what your point is. A good rebuild by a name adds a lot of value over untouched engine that is past its best - and that is what they cost in the Porsche world. Don't ask me how I know :-(
mrdemon said:
Chewykneeslider said:
The 356 market is incredibly interesting, as others have observed.
I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
25k you want a kit car then not a real one. :-)I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
you need to add a 0 to that for some open top motoring in a 356 :-)
Adding a 0 also sounds too much, but I would expect to be paying at least double for starters. Funny really because I can remember thinking that £75K was rather a lot for a genuine Speedster. That would be cheap now.
Chewykneeslider said:
Still not really seeing the value in spending over £50k on a 356 Coupe, when my 997 is worth half that though.
It doesn't work like that and the comparison with a 997 has no relevance.Its worth what the market supports, that is all. I think you need at least 50k and probably a bit more to get into a decent one.
This an interesting topic!
I know a guy who bought both a coupe and soft top from South Africa and they were good straight cars, might be worth a look?
I saw slightly ratted 356A for sale earlier this year on a VW forum that came with photos of the body resto.and would have cleaned up nicely at what ever pace your wallet could take! It was silver and around 38K.
I know a guy who bought both a coupe and soft top from South Africa and they were good straight cars, might be worth a look?
I saw slightly ratted 356A for sale earlier this year on a VW forum that came with photos of the body resto.and would have cleaned up nicely at what ever pace your wallet could take! It was silver and around 38K.
I sold my lhd 63 356b sunroof a couple of months ago for 40k to a nice chap in France,he had been looking for a while and at the time there was nothing comparable.
When i bought (18 months ago) the ammount of dross about was unbelievable,a good source of info is the american based 356registry.com who helped me with previous history and provenance with mine, which of course is everything and the main thing the true anorak brigade insist on is "matching numbers" and Porsche cert of authenticity.
Mine wasn,t a matching number car which devalued it and this was not a problem to me as it had a nice rebuilt unit in which was oil tight(rare) but on resale the first question was....Is it matching numbers ?
Many matching number declared cars are fakes as it is very lucrative to the tune of £30k to restamp engine and easily done.
There is a certain engine supplier in California that miraculously supplies the matching number engine for your car for around $20,000.
A good one though is much better than money in the bank and cheap as chips to insure on classic policy and zero RFL and once sorted easy to look after and maintain as its only a posh beetle .
When i bought (18 months ago) the ammount of dross about was unbelievable,a good source of info is the american based 356registry.com who helped me with previous history and provenance with mine, which of course is everything and the main thing the true anorak brigade insist on is "matching numbers" and Porsche cert of authenticity.
Mine wasn,t a matching number car which devalued it and this was not a problem to me as it had a nice rebuilt unit in which was oil tight(rare) but on resale the first question was....Is it matching numbers ?
Many matching number declared cars are fakes as it is very lucrative to the tune of £30k to restamp engine and easily done.
There is a certain engine supplier in California that miraculously supplies the matching number engine for your car for around $20,000.
A good one though is much better than money in the bank and cheap as chips to insure on classic policy and zero RFL and once sorted easy to look after and maintain as its only a posh beetle .
mrdemon said:
Chewykneeslider said:
The 356 market is incredibly interesting, as others have observed.
I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
25k you want a kit car then not a real one. :-)I'm looking to spend about £25k, but could go more for the right one.
you need to add a 0 to that for some open top motoring in a 356 :-)
£80k onwards gets you into a tidy cabrio. If you can find one tidy!
Not talking about anything special here, i.e not speedsters, bent screen cars etc.
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