E-Type or Pagoda
Discussion
I am fortunate to own both. whichever you buy, be very careful as there are many many poorly restored dogs out there due to their popularity. unfortunately both rust..
To drive, the e type is a total event. The 280 isnt actually that much fun to drive. To live with, the Merc. Its a bit hardier and reliable.
Check. www.motoringinvestments.com to get an idea of what to search for. Be wary of Pagodas with polished up engine parts and black engine bays with no spot welds on the inner wings. I have seen absolute dogs from so called marque specilaists and classic car dealers in posh parts of london....
To drive, the e type is a total event. The 280 isnt actually that much fun to drive. To live with, the Merc. Its a bit hardier and reliable.
Check. www.motoringinvestments.com to get an idea of what to search for. Be wary of Pagodas with polished up engine parts and black engine bays with no spot welds on the inner wings. I have seen absolute dogs from so called marque specilaists and classic car dealers in posh parts of london....
Edited by Paracetamol on Tuesday 3rd December 05:48
Edited by Paracetamol on Tuesday 3rd December 07:38
I can put the car in top, slip the clutch to 12mph and then drive all the way to 130mph with no vibration. That's a Jaguar engine. Can the Mercedes do that? An E-type can be sleeping beauty or a demon depending on your mood, and since I've only ridden in a pagoda as passenger I can't really compare, but it seems a civilised tourer but without the Hyde side of the Jekyll. I doubt that in daily driving you'd be deceived by either since both turn heads, but as said, buy wisely and if you aren't sure, get a proper inspection. A fool and his money and all that.
Not a bad problem to have!
Isn't there a sizeable cost difference between the two?
I'd go 280SL, if its a manual, as it would appear the E-Type is more numerous among the different versions in the UK, where Pagodas are but one shape.
With an E-Type, if you buy a +2 or a Series III, I'd always have the nag that it wasn't a Series I...
Isn't there a sizeable cost difference between the two?
I'd go 280SL, if its a manual, as it would appear the E-Type is more numerous among the different versions in the UK, where Pagodas are but one shape.
With an E-Type, if you buy a +2 or a Series III, I'd always have the nag that it wasn't a Series I...
itiejim said:
lowdrag said:
I can put the car in top, slip the clutch to 12mph and then drive all the way to 130mph with no vibration...
err, why? Is the gearbox that bad? 
I've driven an E-type and would love to own one if I had the means , but I do admire the Pagoda even if I imagine it isn't the most exciting car to drive. Hand on heart I couldn't say which way I'd go, whatever you decide I hope you get a car you enjoy.
fourwheelsteer said:
If it were a 3.8 with the Moss gearbox then, yes, it is that bad.
A good Moss shouldn't be that bad.OK, so it isn't a modern auto, but they ain't that bad, and to me using an old fashioned gear box is part of the appeal of driving an old fashioned car. There's no synchro on first, the engine is so flexible that you're unlikely ever to want to change down into first unless you're crawling through traffic when its very easy to feel it gently into place, and you soon learn to snick the lever quickly into 2nd box selecting first when pulling away, in no time it'll be second nature, I find myself still doing even though I've no longer got the Moss in my 150, I even find I'm doing when I occasionally drive modern manuals. Changing from 1st to second is rarely a problem unless you're trying to brake records, 2nd to 3rd shouldn't be an issue and 3rd to fourth isn't a problem. Changing down the box is more noticeable. Again 4th to 3rd shouldn't cause any more drama than in any other manual box. 3rd to 2nd is more of an issue, but in a good Moss box shouldn't be difficult, only trying to go from 2nd down to first is going to be an issue if you're not used to double de-clutching. I've never really bother to double de-clutch my 150, it just never seemed to be necessary unless you're trying to shave 10ths on on a lap time.
On the plus side, changing gear on a Moss box successfully is a good feeling, you know you've done it, rather than pile of electronics or clever gizmo. Why drive a classic if you want it to behave like some modern thing?
I once got slagged off in the Jaguar forum because I'd described Jezza as being a girlie because he found a Moss box difficult, a lady replied that she never found commuting into the City of London in her XK150 to be a problem "Girlies can cope with Moss boxes".
Of course not all Moss boxes are as good as they should be, make sure the one you buy is.
Putting a modern 5 speed unit into an E-Type isn't difficult. Guy Broad supply one which is basically Ford MT75 internals in a custom casing to make it a drop in replacement for the Moss. Its a lot lighter too. But it totally changes the character of the car. I miss the Moss box in my 150.
small engine on a steep hill?
A friend had been taught this too by his driving instructor and after the 3rd time we'd had to jump out to push him up steeper parts of Wrynose Pass we convinced him that sometimes you just need to do it before trying Hardknott.
1600cc transit mini buses were fun on there too.
In the XK it only tend to be when tick over speed in 2nd was faster than the traffic is going.
A friend had been taught this too by his driving instructor and after the 3rd time we'd had to jump out to push him up steeper parts of Wrynose Pass we convinced him that sometimes you just need to do it before trying Hardknott.
1600cc transit mini buses were fun on there too.
In the XK it only tend to be when tick over speed in 2nd was faster than the traffic is going.
a8hex said:
small engine on a steep hill?
A friend had been taught this too by his driving instructor and after the 3rd time we'd had to jump out to push him up steeper parts of Wrynose Pass we convinced him that sometimes you just need to do it before trying Hardknott.
1600cc transit mini buses were fun on there too.
In the XK it only tend to be when tick over speed in 2nd was faster than the traffic is going.
Easy...I never drive small engined cars A friend had been taught this too by his driving instructor and after the 3rd time we'd had to jump out to push him up steeper parts of Wrynose Pass we convinced him that sometimes you just need to do it before trying Hardknott.
1600cc transit mini buses were fun on there too.
In the XK it only tend to be when tick over speed in 2nd was faster than the traffic is going.
a8hex said:
fourwheelsteer said:
If it were a 3.8 with the Moss gearbox then, yes, it is that bad.
A good Moss shouldn't be that bad.<lots of good stuff about gearboxes>.
As an aside, I'm sure the man from the JDHT said the Moss box didn't have synchro on second either but that may be the memory playing tricks. Or possibly just that after 50 years there wasn't any synchromesh left...
fourwheelsteer said:
You are right, to be fair Moss gearboxes each seem to have their own character. The E-type's happened to be the least impressive of the three Moss-equipped Jaguars I've driven. None of them were actually as bad the reputation suggests, but I can believe that it takes time to master the appropriate technique.
As an aside, I'm sure the man from the JDHT said the Moss box didn't have synchro on second either but that may be the memory playing tricks. Or possibly just that after 50 years there wasn't any synchromesh left...
They have synchromesh on second but it can go AWOL with time.As an aside, I'm sure the man from the JDHT said the Moss box didn't have synchro on second either but that may be the memory playing tricks. Or possibly just that after 50 years there wasn't any synchromesh left...
Most of them will have been rebuilt by now and the quality of rebuild will of course lead to different "character".
Mine was rebuilt by the late great Alan George who built the original competition gearboxes for the factory, including works D types. In fact he probably built mine the first time around as it's a close-ratio job from the competition shop.
Back to the OP's original question.
An E-type every time.The Mercedes is a beautiful looking car of better build quality, but it's not at all exciting to drive.
Paracetamol said:
I never change from 2nd to 1st in any manual car whislt moving (Moss box or not). It was something taught to me in my advanced driving course when I was 18...
Towards the top of the Stelvio Pass I had to use 1st on the corners and 2nd up the straight bits. I was using 2nd & 3rd lower down but as the air thinned it was necessary to use the lower gears. As you can imagine I was changing between them every 30 seconds or so. Good job I learnt to change gears without syncro' 
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff