Should I attemt to get more power?
Discussion
Probably yes, BUT. Where do you start & then where do you finish !! How much more do you want and what's the budget !!!
All the things you can do have a knock-on. If you slam up the power, you may well mince the diff...and the clutch...and the driveshafts... and you'll get hotter, particularly if you think about bigger turbos.
We had a big conflab about the intercooler on saturday and all agreed that extra power could definitely be gained by getting more air through it. Only problem is it's not that easy as the back of the car is a major space of dead air even at high speed. JNM are offering an upgraded intercooler at the mo. I believe it's around £950.
There is also the arguement as to wether more power will necessarily mean you getting from A to B any faster. Apologies if you are an experienced track driver
but your money may well be better spent on good training. PLEASE don't take that the wrong way but I certainly know my car went a lot faster round Dunsfold when the racing driver drove than when I did!!! The noble is about balance and corners after all, there is an arguement that a big increase in power without substantial changes to the rest of the car may make it worse !
After all that, I'm a crap driver but have still had mine upgraded !! Was done by JNM, a rather gentle upgrade that was more to do with fixing a failed ECU rather than attempt to get more power tho. !
>> Edited by obes on Tuesday 9th November 12:32
All the things you can do have a knock-on. If you slam up the power, you may well mince the diff...and the clutch...and the driveshafts... and you'll get hotter, particularly if you think about bigger turbos.
We had a big conflab about the intercooler on saturday and all agreed that extra power could definitely be gained by getting more air through it. Only problem is it's not that easy as the back of the car is a major space of dead air even at high speed. JNM are offering an upgraded intercooler at the mo. I believe it's around £950.
There is also the arguement as to wether more power will necessarily mean you getting from A to B any faster. Apologies if you are an experienced track driver
but your money may well be better spent on good training. PLEASE don't take that the wrong way but I certainly know my car went a lot faster round Dunsfold when the racing driver drove than when I did!!! The noble is about balance and corners after all, there is an arguement that a big increase in power without substantial changes to the rest of the car may make it worse ! After all that, I'm a crap driver but have still had mine upgraded !! Was done by JNM, a rather gentle upgrade that was more to do with fixing a failed ECU rather than attempt to get more power tho. !
>> Edited by obes on Tuesday 9th November 12:32
Found this too, Bob posted these details a while ago.
O.
Stage 1- Available for both 2.5 and 3.0
The Noble Motorsport designed intercooler is approximately 30% more efficient than standard and will give you the full power of the engine at high speeds and after pulling hard through the low gears. 30% lower intake temperatures mean that the car always has that crisp snappy acceleration.
Fitted price--£998.47+VAT
Stage 2- Available for 3.0
As above+ move air intakes to front of engine bay so as not to rob intercooler of airflow.
Fitted price--£1188.20+VAT
Stage 3- Available for 3.0
As 1 and 2 plus carry out internal engine mods,run on a rolling road and carry out a power graph. This will increase power to 380bhp plus increase torque by 10%.
Fitted price--£1995.35
Stage 4- Available for 3.0
As above but more engine mods to bring up to 428bhp.
Price-- Upon request
Stage 5- Available for 3.0
New engine build with big valves to bring up to 500bhp.
Price-- Upon request
Contact Peter, Steve or Mick at
John Noble Motorsport Ltd
Chatsworth Business Park
172 Chatsworth Road
Chesterfield
Derbyshire
S40 2AR
Tel 01246 272749
Fax 01246 272750
email johnnobleengines@aol.com
www.johnnoblemotorsport.co.uk
O.
Stage 1- Available for both 2.5 and 3.0
The Noble Motorsport designed intercooler is approximately 30% more efficient than standard and will give you the full power of the engine at high speeds and after pulling hard through the low gears. 30% lower intake temperatures mean that the car always has that crisp snappy acceleration.
Fitted price--£998.47+VAT
Stage 2- Available for 3.0
As above+ move air intakes to front of engine bay so as not to rob intercooler of airflow.
Fitted price--£1188.20+VAT
Stage 3- Available for 3.0
As 1 and 2 plus carry out internal engine mods,run on a rolling road and carry out a power graph. This will increase power to 380bhp plus increase torque by 10%.
Fitted price--£1995.35
Stage 4- Available for 3.0
As above but more engine mods to bring up to 428bhp.
Price-- Upon request
Stage 5- Available for 3.0
New engine build with big valves to bring up to 500bhp.
Price-- Upon request
Contact Peter, Steve or Mick at
John Noble Motorsport Ltd
Chatsworth Business Park
172 Chatsworth Road
Chesterfield
Derbyshire
S40 2AR
Tel 01246 272749
Fax 01246 272750
email johnnobleengines@aol.com
www.johnnoblemotorsport.co.uk
obes
How dare you question my driving ability!
Anyone that can bend a wheel before a roundabout, without even reaching it MUST be classed as, well, incompetent.
I agree actually. Going to Elvinton this weekend to get used to the power, grip and basically learn how to handle the power I have now.
Once I feel 100% confident, then I will think about it.
One thing does concern me is the cooling. I think as it stands now, it is not sufficient, especially in hot conditions. I have seen a Noble, in Morocco, boil its oil. So if I am to do anything, cooling is probably first on the list.
How dare you question my driving ability!
Anyone that can bend a wheel before a roundabout, without even reaching it MUST be classed as, well, incompetent.
I agree actually. Going to Elvinton this weekend to get used to the power, grip and basically learn how to handle the power I have now.
Once I feel 100% confident, then I will think about it.
One thing does concern me is the cooling. I think as it stands now, it is not sufficient, especially in hot conditions. I have seen a Noble, in Morocco, boil its oil. So if I am to do anything, cooling is probably first on the list.
ashgaunt said:
I would suggest cooling as per Rollcentre race car. If you neglect gear oil cooling (i.e. fast road use/track days/races up to 30mins) then the 395mm MOCAL Laminova oil to water cooler will work to at least 450bhp. Together with slight front rad box mods will be the best solution.
Hi Ash,
Do the M400 Side Pods make a difference to cooling?
Thanks
Nathan
Exactement mon petits. Same car: M12 PRC, same track
onnington international, same day, same time, two Drivers: Paul Cundy & David Mason, his fastest lap 1 min 22. Mine 1 min 24. 2 seconds difference and its not because he's lighter than I am. I (really)thought I was driving on the limit - obviously not.
Its all about getting to the limits of the car, extra power just makes the limit get further away.
Another point, his lap time variation 0.5 secs, mine 3-4 secs. First thing about driving fast is being fast. Second thing is being fast repeatedly over and over again.
Best ever performance enhancements I've experienced is getting someone to drive my car with me in it at speeds I did not think were possible. You won't be as fast as they were but you will be able to drive your car faster than you ever beleived possible beforehand.
Next best thing is a data logger. Foggy memories and war stories of how fast it was or what gear was I in are unreliable. Get a data logger and you can see objective evidence of what you are doing. I got one and immediately realised I wasa doing L hand corners faster than R handers. Next time out I compensated and down went the lap times.
It ain't what you got its how you use it.
Regards
Paul C~
onnington international, same day, same time, two Drivers: Paul Cundy & David Mason, his fastest lap 1 min 22. Mine 1 min 24. 2 seconds difference and its not because he's lighter than I am. I (really)thought I was driving on the limit - obviously not. Its all about getting to the limits of the car, extra power just makes the limit get further away.
Another point, his lap time variation 0.5 secs, mine 3-4 secs. First thing about driving fast is being fast. Second thing is being fast repeatedly over and over again.
Best ever performance enhancements I've experienced is getting someone to drive my car with me in it at speeds I did not think were possible. You won't be as fast as they were but you will be able to drive your car faster than you ever beleived possible beforehand.
Next best thing is a data logger. Foggy memories and war stories of how fast it was or what gear was I in are unreliable. Get a data logger and you can see objective evidence of what you are doing. I got one and immediately realised I wasa doing L hand corners faster than R handers. Next time out I compensated and down went the lap times.
It ain't what you got its how you use it.
Regards
Paul C~
Have to agree with Paul C - get some instruction and practice, practice, practice!
Had the pleasure of being driven around Brands Indy this afternoon by Richard Westbrook (Porsche Carrera Cup winner 2004) in a race-spec GT3; absolutely incredible. You think you're a pretty good driver and then you see how it should be done... awe inspiring.
www.richardwestbrook.co.uk
Had the pleasure of being driven around Brands Indy this afternoon by Richard Westbrook (Porsche Carrera Cup winner 2004) in a race-spec GT3; absolutely incredible. You think you're a pretty good driver and then you see how it should be done... awe inspiring.
www.richardwestbrook.co.uk
Owen,
FYI, Bob Sharpe (at the factory) did not post the information about power upgrades, John Noble Motorsport did. As mentioned before, the factory do not authorise these or any other upgrade packages to standard models. To date, we have never tried 500bhp in a Noble, and have no data to support whether the diff, gearbox, driveshafts, brakes etc will cope.
Since the fan upgrade was introduced, we have had no problem with water cooling. Our Australian ADR development car recently did a track day in 50 degree (Celcius) heat at the Eastern Creek circuit near Sydney, with no overheating problems at all.
The offside side pod on the M400 is there specifically to duct air into the oil cooler mounted behind it, and the nearside pod is purely aesthetic.
In my experience, oil temperatures tend to get high if a car is thrashed on a track and not cooled down. I've never had a problem with brakes, oil temp or water temp if the car is given one to two easy laps at the end of a track session.
Simon Hucknall
Press Officer
Noble Automotive Ltd.
FYI, Bob Sharpe (at the factory) did not post the information about power upgrades, John Noble Motorsport did. As mentioned before, the factory do not authorise these or any other upgrade packages to standard models. To date, we have never tried 500bhp in a Noble, and have no data to support whether the diff, gearbox, driveshafts, brakes etc will cope.
Since the fan upgrade was introduced, we have had no problem with water cooling. Our Australian ADR development car recently did a track day in 50 degree (Celcius) heat at the Eastern Creek circuit near Sydney, with no overheating problems at all.
The offside side pod on the M400 is there specifically to duct air into the oil cooler mounted behind it, and the nearside pod is purely aesthetic.
In my experience, oil temperatures tend to get high if a car is thrashed on a track and not cooled down. I've never had a problem with brakes, oil temp or water temp if the car is given one to two easy laps at the end of a track session.
Simon Hucknall
Press Officer
Noble Automotive Ltd.
Dear Mick,
Agree totaly re oil cooling and cooling down laps. I've observed a 10-15'c reduction in indicated oil temp during a single cooling down lap at Donnington so it does work.
However my car can get its oil up to 120'c even on a cold day so I'm looking for some additional cooling for next summer's antics.
Question, the M400 oil cooler is that available as a factory mod? Does it fit from a sandwich plate? What effect does it have on oil pressure?
More info gratefully received.
Regards
Paul C
Agree totaly re oil cooling and cooling down laps. I've observed a 10-15'c reduction in indicated oil temp during a single cooling down lap at Donnington so it does work.
However my car can get its oil up to 120'c even on a cold day so I'm looking for some additional cooling for next summer's antics.
Question, the M400 oil cooler is that available as a factory mod? Does it fit from a sandwich plate? What effect does it have on oil pressure?
More info gratefully received.
Regards
Paul C
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