I want, I want, I want.....
Discussion
Since getting my Chimaera earlier this year and reading the forums I now know that I want all the following:
A supercharger or turbocharger
Stage 3 heads
Bigger injectors
Better induction
A Decat y piece
A tornado chip
No, a Megasquirt or a Emarald ECU
An LPG conversion
Lupo headlights
No, Mark III headlights
Mazda MX5 seats
Clear indicators
Nitrons
Poly bushed suspension
Bigger discs
Larger wheels for the bigger discs
Track day tyres that fit the larger wheels
An interior retrim
A front end respray
I'm sure I've missed other things as well.
Why can't I just be happy with what I've got?
A supercharger or turbocharger
Stage 3 heads
Bigger injectors
Better induction
A Decat y piece
A tornado chip
No, a Megasquirt or a Emarald ECU
An LPG conversion
Lupo headlights
No, Mark III headlights
Mazda MX5 seats
Clear indicators
Nitrons
Poly bushed suspension
Bigger discs
Larger wheels for the bigger discs
Track day tyres that fit the larger wheels
An interior retrim
A front end respray
I'm sure I've missed other things as well.
Why can't I just be happy with what I've got?
Karl, brilliant 
I paid 15K for beastie 3 years ago. Alledgedly standard 500, had 31.5K on the clock, absolutely mint condition In the intervening 3 years I've spent, er, well, 15K. That includes engine rebuild (developed a porous block) all the mods (couldn't stop myself), servicing, and various odd repairs. So, 30K in three years. Actually it might be more but I've stopped counting.
So, have I got a 30K car sitting in my drive? NO!
Have I got one of the most iconic, fastest, best looking cars, ever, sitting in my drive? YES
For the 30 grand I've spent, I could have a fairly mint 997 turbo sitting on the drive.
But would that make me as happy as I am now?
Feck. I need to go away and think about this
I paid 15K for beastie 3 years ago. Alledgedly standard 500, had 31.5K on the clock, absolutely mint condition
In the intervening 3 years I've spent, er, well, 15K. That includes engine rebuild (developed a porous block) all the mods (couldn't stop myself), servicing, and various odd repairs. So, 30K in three years. Actually it might be more but I've stopped counting.So, have I got a 30K car sitting in my drive? NO!
Have I got one of the most iconic, fastest, best looking cars, ever, sitting in my drive? YES
For the 30 grand I've spent, I could have a fairly mint 997 turbo sitting on the drive.
But would that make me as happy as I am now?
Feck. I need to go away and think about this
Sorry if I'm partly to blame Karl as my car has most of the things on your list - the main difference is that I was discussing Turbo when my crankshaft snapped so probably be happy with the new 5.4 - 400 lbs ft and 50 mpg ...
On a serious note its a good list - the LPG will pay you back within 10k, Adam may be getting rid of his MX5 seats and when you've got to the end of the list ......
.... you'll want a Griff !!
On a serious note its a good list - the LPG will pay you back within 10k, Adam may be getting rid of his MX5 seats and when you've got to the end of the list ......
.... you'll want a Griff !!
In all seriousness the Cerbera is the only car (other than a F40) that I've ever considered 'scary'.
I love speed, drive quick but the reality is how much faster would I be on the road in a Cerb? Not a lot I suspect if I want to keep my licence.
I do intend to keep the Chim for quite a few years so LPG does make sense but I believe I'd need Megaquirt/Emarald to control it and that would cost more than the actual LPG conversion which increases the payback time significantly.
I love speed, drive quick but the reality is how much faster would I be on the road in a Cerb? Not a lot I suspect if I want to keep my licence.
I do intend to keep the Chim for quite a few years so LPG does make sense but I believe I'd need Megaquirt/Emarald to control it and that would cost more than the actual LPG conversion which increases the payback time significantly.
A900ss said:
I do intend to keep the Chim for quite a few years so LPG does make sense but I believe I'd need Megaquirt/Emarald to control it and that would cost more than the actual LPG conversion which increases the payback time significantly.
Don't confuse "need" with "it would be preferable to have".You don't "need" a mappable ECU with proper ignition control to go LPG, but by god you'll make a better job of the conversion if you had it.
You could easily fit a piggy back ECU off your existing Lucas 14CUX ECU, actually its been done a million times before on Range Rovers.
It's exactly the same with forced induction, you don't "need" a mappable ECU with proper ignition control to fit a blower but again it'll be massively better if you do have it.
There are a couple of guys on here with supercharged Chimaeras still running the 14CUX and distributor.
So what should be your first purchase before you consider anything else on your list?
In my opinion you should always start with a decent after market ECU to give yourself full control of fuel & ignition.
You'll see immediate benefits on your normally aspirated petrol TVR, and the door then immediately swings open to making a better job of everything else you want to do in the future.
[quote=ChimpOnGas]
"There are a couple of guys on here with supercharged Chimaeras still running the 14CUX and distributor."
Yeah, but they won't run very well on that set up and it is a compromise too far! The ignition timing requirements are totally different, boost retard when you open the throttle rather than ignition advance on N/A!
"There are a couple of guys on here with supercharged Chimaeras still running the 14CUX and distributor."
Yeah, but they won't run very well on that set up and it is a compromise too far! The ignition timing requirements are totally different, boost retard when you open the throttle rather than ignition advance on N/A!
Mr Supercharged]himpOnGas said:
"There are a couple of guys on here with supercharged Chimaeras still running the 14CUX and distributor."
Yeah, but they won't run very well on that set up and it is a compromise too far! The ignition timing requirements are totally different, boost retard when you open the throttle rather than ignition advance on N/A!
If you're going to quote me, do use my complete statement. Yeah, but they won't run very well on that set up and it is a compromise too far! The ignition timing requirements are totally different, boost retard when you open the throttle rather than ignition advance on N/A!
I'll add the bit you missed out.
ChimpOnGas said:
"It's exactly the same with forced induction, you don't "need" a mappable ECU with proper ignition control to fit a blower but again it'll be massively better if you do have it"
Don't forget superchargers have been around a few years longer than mappable ignition 
My point was clear, and is illustrated rather conclusively in the above examples, and I could show you many many more.
My point was..."You dont need a modern ECU to make forced induction to work"
But as I also clearly stated, it will massively help to make a better job of it.
No selective edits of my words this time please.
There's zero value offered to the group in repeating what I already said, then selectively editing it by removing half of my quote to make it appear only Mr Supercharged knows what he's taking about.
You've made a lovely job of fitting your super charger installation, why not just let the pictures of your installation do the talking?
This is what a real PistonHeads post should look like
Thanks for the compliment.
It's not the intention to offend. But Karl should understand that if he goes for forced induction the distributor fitted with the 14CUX does not work well for that. The examples you have found will have been fitted with distributors set up for forced induction. The 14CUX dizzy is not. In fact to overcome these difficulties the vacuum advance pipe is connected to the other side of the throttle butterfly valve to work the other way around retarding the ignition as you open the throttle. This is crude and it does not work very well at all and any potential buyers of forced induction (be it turbo or SC) should not be under any false hopes that it will. That is the point I was trying to make.
Mr Supercharged said:
Thanks for the compliment.
It's not the intention to offend. But Karl should understand that if he goes for forced induction the distributor fitted with the 14CUX does not work well for that. The examples you have found will have been fitted with distributors set up for forced induction. The 14CUX dizzy is not. In fact to overcome these difficulties the vacuum advance pipe is connected to the other side of the throttle butterfly valve to work the other way around retarding the ignition as you open the throttle. This is crude and it does not work very well at all and any potential buyers of forced induction (be it turbo or SC) should not be under any false hopes that it will. That is the point I was trying to make.
Indeed, couldn't agree more It's not the intention to offend. But Karl should understand that if he goes for forced induction the distributor fitted with the 14CUX does not work well for that. The examples you have found will have been fitted with distributors set up for forced induction. The 14CUX dizzy is not. In fact to overcome these difficulties the vacuum advance pipe is connected to the other side of the throttle butterfly valve to work the other way around retarding the ignition as you open the throttle. This is crude and it does not work very well at all and any potential buyers of forced induction (be it turbo or SC) should not be under any false hopes that it will. That is the point I was trying to make.
TBH I think we're a couple of Canems users on exactly the same page
In a similar vein I wouldn't waste my time with LPG unless I could do something with the advance to take advantage of its 110 ron & the very different burn characteristics of propane.
Your supercharger installation does look excellent, I'd like to learn more about what you've done, it looks very well thought out.
In fact it seems to me you've remodelled the SC-Power kit so much I wonder if something similar could be created with a cheaper Vortech or Pro-Charger unit from the States.
A mate of mine has a Vortech on his AJP V8 Cerbera and it works very well.
If you were doing it again, would you start with the SC-Power kit or follow your own path completely from the outset?
Cheers, Dave
As you know Dave, I work in Nuclear so anything is possible! :-)
Happy to share my experiences with you.
The clever part about the SC Power kit is the bracket which bolts onto the front of the engine. This has been well thought out by SC Power and there is no doubt about it, Colin Harvey is a clever guy. That is not to say that it could not be reverse engineered and improved upon to fit another type of SC. I have some ideas of my own.
I started with mine on 14CUX, it did not run as expected tweaking the rising rate Begi regulator and standard injectors. It was remapped with bigger injectors, it was better but still did not run right. The main issue was the start up map on the 14CUX, it did not like the big injectors. If you did not catch it on first fire up from hot it would flood and at a petrol station that is embarrassing. I had to walk away, have a pint and come back 45 minutes later and off I went. That was the end of the 14CUX. So if you go FI don't keep your 14CUX. You will pay more in the long run if you do!
The rest of the kit I have re-engineered myself. I stared non inter-cooled and then designed my own intercooler and pipework because I could and I have something to prove for another day! I had to teach myself everything I didn't know because some so called experts know less than you think (no names mentioned here) and you need to sort the bull from the facts. Anyone wanting to know how to make SC work may ask.
I fitted my own Canems system because I wanted to know how it works and where all the wires go. I wrote the article in Sprint and produced the wiring diagram to finish it off. That makes fault finding easy not that my wiring will ever have any issues I should like to add! When you have an ECU fitted by someone else it may well be a good job but where do you start if it isn't working? Chances are you wont have a wiring diagram and you are just left wondering. And you still wont know how it all works and how it interfaced with the rest of the car's wiring and I didn't feel comfortable with that.
The way I installed my ECU was labour intensive but well worth it. Even David at Canems was impressed. Again, being in Nuclear gives me access to advice from some very clever people despite what you said about it before. :-)
The other point you raised, would I stay Rotrex? Answer, don't know. My Rotrex is expensive, the oil is horrendously priced. But it is quiet, efficient and touch wood 100% reliable. The cheapest place to buy the Rotrex from is GMC Motorsport I believe. I don't know anything about the other SC manufacturers, I have not had to learn, but it could be fun to design a bracket to fit one to an LPG chimaera if you fancy it? :-) Kind of a contradiction though, the extra fuel cost saving would be in part removed by powering the blower, but none the less worth considering? Perhaps I could design you a clutch to switch it off and not load the engine when not required, and open a valve to allow air in direct rather than through a non rotating blower? Now there's an idea from the Mad Max films! I have a spare engine but we would need pulleys and alternator brackets etc from an existing lump to borrow / add on before doing the detailed design. Cheers....
Happy to share my experiences with you.
The clever part about the SC Power kit is the bracket which bolts onto the front of the engine. This has been well thought out by SC Power and there is no doubt about it, Colin Harvey is a clever guy. That is not to say that it could not be reverse engineered and improved upon to fit another type of SC. I have some ideas of my own.
I started with mine on 14CUX, it did not run as expected tweaking the rising rate Begi regulator and standard injectors. It was remapped with bigger injectors, it was better but still did not run right. The main issue was the start up map on the 14CUX, it did not like the big injectors. If you did not catch it on first fire up from hot it would flood and at a petrol station that is embarrassing. I had to walk away, have a pint and come back 45 minutes later and off I went. That was the end of the 14CUX. So if you go FI don't keep your 14CUX. You will pay more in the long run if you do!
The rest of the kit I have re-engineered myself. I stared non inter-cooled and then designed my own intercooler and pipework because I could and I have something to prove for another day! I had to teach myself everything I didn't know because some so called experts know less than you think (no names mentioned here) and you need to sort the bull from the facts. Anyone wanting to know how to make SC work may ask.
I fitted my own Canems system because I wanted to know how it works and where all the wires go. I wrote the article in Sprint and produced the wiring diagram to finish it off. That makes fault finding easy not that my wiring will ever have any issues I should like to add! When you have an ECU fitted by someone else it may well be a good job but where do you start if it isn't working? Chances are you wont have a wiring diagram and you are just left wondering. And you still wont know how it all works and how it interfaced with the rest of the car's wiring and I didn't feel comfortable with that.
The way I installed my ECU was labour intensive but well worth it. Even David at Canems was impressed. Again, being in Nuclear gives me access to advice from some very clever people despite what you said about it before. :-)
The other point you raised, would I stay Rotrex? Answer, don't know. My Rotrex is expensive, the oil is horrendously priced. But it is quiet, efficient and touch wood 100% reliable. The cheapest place to buy the Rotrex from is GMC Motorsport I believe. I don't know anything about the other SC manufacturers, I have not had to learn, but it could be fun to design a bracket to fit one to an LPG chimaera if you fancy it? :-) Kind of a contradiction though, the extra fuel cost saving would be in part removed by powering the blower, but none the less worth considering? Perhaps I could design you a clutch to switch it off and not load the engine when not required, and open a valve to allow air in direct rather than through a non rotating blower? Now there's an idea from the Mad Max films! I have a spare engine but we would need pulleys and alternator brackets etc from an existing lump to borrow / add on before doing the detailed design. Cheers....
Edited by Mr Supercharged on Wednesday 4th December 00:00
Edited by Mr Supercharged on Wednesday 4th December 00:04
Thanks, as you know I already have a Canems system, mine being the dual fuel version that houses the peak & hold injector drivers.
Map 1 controls the petrol as with your petrol only Canems, map 2 controls the LPG side.
There are some rather clever additional tweaks that I wont bore you with, but essentially both fuels can be managed independently from the same ECU, the refined ignition control this offers on LPG being a particular advantage when converting to dual fuel.
The Canems system was installed by Lloyd Specialist Developments who did an excellent job and completely ran through the installation with me when completed, so I fully understand how it's wired & how it works.
I have an excellent working relationship with Lloyds who I find are extremely professional & knowledgeable, they have been working with the Canems system for many years so have built up an enviable understanding of the system.
Forced induction & LPG are actually extremely happy bed fellows, the very fact its 110 Ron should give you some clues as to why.
There are no compromises fitting a supercharger to my LPG Chimaera, in fact it presents some advantages over installing one on a petrol only car.
The fuel consumption of my car averages around the cost equivalent of 45-50mpg, should I lose 5mpg after fitting a supercharger I'm still paying for fuel at a similar cost to a car achieving 40mpg.
So still a huge improvement over a petrol Chimaera, supercharged or not.
It does seem to me SC-Power have made an excellent job of the bracket, I have no issue paying for the kit and it's substantial development work.
I also like the Rotrex unit, the lack of gears being a particular advantage over other centrifugal blowers.
My current thinking is to start with the un-intercooled set up, having all the Canems sensor inputs offers huge scope to control detonation, the initial boost may be limited but the risk can be eliminated even without intercooling.
Step two would see me moving to a charge cooler rather than an intercooler, which offers improvements in packaging and mitigates the need for the two unsightly intercooler pipes that dominate the under-bonnet aesthetics in a negative way.
Well that's the plan, if there are things to be learned from others I'm the first to listen, but as you quite rightly point out this must start by judicious use of my highly developed BS filter.
Thanks for your comments, your supercharger installation is very nice, it just needs some 110 Ron race fuel like mine
You can buy it everywhere and it's only £0.71p a litre
Map 1 controls the petrol as with your petrol only Canems, map 2 controls the LPG side.
There are some rather clever additional tweaks that I wont bore you with, but essentially both fuels can be managed independently from the same ECU, the refined ignition control this offers on LPG being a particular advantage when converting to dual fuel.
The Canems system was installed by Lloyd Specialist Developments who did an excellent job and completely ran through the installation with me when completed, so I fully understand how it's wired & how it works.
I have an excellent working relationship with Lloyds who I find are extremely professional & knowledgeable, they have been working with the Canems system for many years so have built up an enviable understanding of the system.
Forced induction & LPG are actually extremely happy bed fellows, the very fact its 110 Ron should give you some clues as to why.
There are no compromises fitting a supercharger to my LPG Chimaera, in fact it presents some advantages over installing one on a petrol only car.
The fuel consumption of my car averages around the cost equivalent of 45-50mpg, should I lose 5mpg after fitting a supercharger I'm still paying for fuel at a similar cost to a car achieving 40mpg.
So still a huge improvement over a petrol Chimaera, supercharged or not.
It does seem to me SC-Power have made an excellent job of the bracket, I have no issue paying for the kit and it's substantial development work.
I also like the Rotrex unit, the lack of gears being a particular advantage over other centrifugal blowers.
My current thinking is to start with the un-intercooled set up, having all the Canems sensor inputs offers huge scope to control detonation, the initial boost may be limited but the risk can be eliminated even without intercooling.
Step two would see me moving to a charge cooler rather than an intercooler, which offers improvements in packaging and mitigates the need for the two unsightly intercooler pipes that dominate the under-bonnet aesthetics in a negative way.
Well that's the plan, if there are things to be learned from others I'm the first to listen, but as you quite rightly point out this must start by judicious use of my highly developed BS filter.
Thanks for your comments, your supercharger installation is very nice, it just needs some 110 Ron race fuel like mine
You can buy it everywhere and it's only £0.71p a litre
All sounds reasonable. You will find though that just running 7 PSI of boost the air inlet temperatures get very high, it was measured at up to 80 degrees C, although I was not there to verify this at that time.
You should really go straight to IC if that is what you want, reason is because otherwise you will end up remapping your car twice.
I looked at water coolers, but you need to drive another pump, an electric pump usually which obviously requires power and therefore additional loses albeit small losses I guess. You also then need a water radiator, so you then have 2 stages of cooling, air to water, then water to air, I am not sure how this can be as efficient, there will be 2 lots of heat exchanger efficiencies as opposed to 1 with just air to air inter-cooling. But please check, for yourself. I think they tend to be used more when space is restricted. Maybe look here?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=66&...
The intercooler I had made was done for a very reasonable cost, and the pipes are easy to make. I quite like mine, they are kept polished but really should be insulated from the exhaust Y piece to be more efficient. Happy to lend a hand if you change your mind and show you how.
I went for the latest Canems, not sure how that differs from yours, but it is the fully sequential version in a metal only box. I run semi sequential since I don't have a cam sensor to tell the ECU what phase the engine is in.....
I also have met the Lloyds guys and yes they are very good and I would recommend them. I just wanted to do it myself and learn in the process.
You should really go straight to IC if that is what you want, reason is because otherwise you will end up remapping your car twice.
I looked at water coolers, but you need to drive another pump, an electric pump usually which obviously requires power and therefore additional loses albeit small losses I guess. You also then need a water radiator, so you then have 2 stages of cooling, air to water, then water to air, I am not sure how this can be as efficient, there will be 2 lots of heat exchanger efficiencies as opposed to 1 with just air to air inter-cooling. But please check, for yourself. I think they tend to be used more when space is restricted. Maybe look here?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=66&...
The intercooler I had made was done for a very reasonable cost, and the pipes are easy to make. I quite like mine, they are kept polished but really should be insulated from the exhaust Y piece to be more efficient. Happy to lend a hand if you change your mind and show you how.
I went for the latest Canems, not sure how that differs from yours, but it is the fully sequential version in a metal only box. I run semi sequential since I don't have a cam sensor to tell the ECU what phase the engine is in.....
I also have met the Lloyds guys and yes they are very good and I would recommend them. I just wanted to do it myself and learn in the process.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff