There's nothing we can do...

[garrykiller]

With the debate concerning the dangers faced by cyclists riding on our busy road network continuing, a new study from the University of Bath and Brunel University offers the view that no matter what clothing a cyclist wears, around 1-2% of drivers will still pass dangerously close when overtaking.


http://www.freight-online.co.uk/road/freight_best_...

[grumbledoak]

You could try whining more. Assuming that is actually possible.

[P-Jay]

It's the same with motor biking. It wouldn't matter if you had a fairground's worth of flashing lights hanging off you. It's not that some drivers don't see you, they just don't care if you live or die in that moment of time - there's a physiological term for it, it's the same state of mind that drives some people to scream and swear at other road users for the slightest error, who wouldn't say boo to a goose on foot.

They get all angry because they might have to wait 15 seconds for a gap to pass safely so they squeeze past a few cm from you, usually muttering about Road Tax of something, the pedestrian equivalent would be to run through a crowed street carrying a javelin because you can't be arse to slow down to avoid spearing someone.

[grumbledoak]

P-Jay said:

They get all angry because they might have to wait 15 seconds for a gap to pass safely so they squeeze past a few cm from you, usually muttering about Road Tax of something, the pedestrian equivalent would be to run through a crowed street carrying a javelin because you can't be arse to slow down to avoid spearing someone.

And the cycling equivalent would by riding on the path because it is safer (for you), or ignoring red lights or barrelling through pedestrian crossings because you don't want to lose momentum. All the time whining loudly as if cyclists are a minority race suffering persecution only just short of a Final Solution. And wearing Lycra shorts in public.

And it's a bloody sight more than 2% of 'you' doing these things.


It has been most funny this week. Since 'your' big media push we've had the police at my nearest junction every morning. Having little chats. Lots and lots of them by the look of it.

[aizvara]

grumbledoak said:

You could try whining more. Assuming that is actually possible.

What the hell provoked that response?


Back on topic:
The article covered the results of some fairly unscientific sounding study about the effects of clothing in mitigating risks to cyclist. Based on that, the researchers claim there'll always be close passes no matter what people wear, which I admit seems quite likely just going on my own experience.

For instance, one person did this to me this morning; rather than wait for the oncoming car to pass then use the other side of the road, they passed me in lane at 40-50mph. I'd rather people didn't do that, as it can be quite gusty and slippery at this time of year anyway, and the wing mirror felt very close.

However, rather than "we can do nothing", I think other things can also help - road position for instance - I should have noticed the car coming head on, and checked over my shoulder and spotted the car following, and perhaps moved out further. That does rely on the driver actually being aware of me, though, which I'm not always convinced of at school run time.

[walm]

grumbledoak said:

And the cycling equivalent would by riding on the path because it is safer (for you), or ignoring red lights or barrelling through pedestrian crossings because you don't want to lose momentum...

Yes because running red lights on a bike causes significant life-threatening danger to all those poor vulnerable drivers.

You can roll your eyes all you like Paul, it just makes your bigoted vitriol even more transparent and pathetic.

[grumbledoak]

aizvara said:

What the hell provoked that response?

The last few weeks media push have got up my nose, I suppose. And the general persecuted minority attitude perfectly illustrated by the 'we' in the title.

Yes, the bottom 1% of anything is always going to be there. You don't need pathetic faux-scientific evidence for this. Now stop collectively whining as if everyone else is out to get you while individually doing nothing positive about your own safety.

[P-Jay]

grumbledoak said:

P-Jay said:

They get all angry because they might have to wait 15 seconds for a gap to pass safely so they squeeze past a few cm from you, usually muttering about Road Tax of something, the pedestrian equivalent would be to run through a crowed street carrying a javelin because you can't be arse to slow down to avoid spearing someone.

And the cycling equivalent would by riding on the path because it is safer (for you), or ignoring red lights or barrelling through pedestrian crossings because you don't want to lose momentum. All the time whining loudly as if cyclists are a minority race suffering persecution only just short of a Final Solution. And wearing Lycra shorts in public.

And it's a bloody sight more than 2% of 'you' doing these things.


It has been most funny this week. Since 'your' big media push we've had the police at my nearest junction every morning. Having little chats. Lots and lots of them by the look of it.

You know most adult cyclists also own cars yeah? It's not 'them and us', cyclists aren't all part of some shady society, holding meetings in private so they can conspire to make Car Drivers arrive 3 seconds later to the queue at the red light? Just because some ahole red-light-jumper gets in your way on the way to work on Monday, it doesn't mean you can get back at 'them' by buzzing someone else on Wednesday.

I know you carefully used quotation marks, to avoid pointing that at me personally. I actually don't ride on the road at all anymore, or indeed the 'path' - I can't stand it, I'm a Mountain Biker and a Car Driver, a former Van Driver, a Former Road Cyclist and former Biker and I think of myself as pretty unbiased.

But most days I see Car, Truck and Van drivers, buzz a cyclist because they simply cannot be fked waiting a few seconds, second-class road users barely covers it. It's just a massive overinflated sense of entitlement. They don't see a person, just a obstacle to (barely) avoid. It's not even given a second thought afterwards, well unless you tap on their window to talk to them about it, they either seem to think you're about to attack them, or reality comes crashing into their air-conditioned, Radio 2 world and they bather some excuse about not realising how close they were to an actual human being.

[Bobley]

There's always something you can do. You stick to the rules of the road and look after number 1.

There'll always be some one being stupid (whether they know they are or not) who will spoil the party. This applies to anyone weather a driver, pedestrian or cyclist.

If you perceive you're in danger then stop get yourself out of that situation pronto. Always assume the other party hasn't seen you and make sure you know where everyone else is.

If you decide to ride in the city then the chances of coming up against some one who doesn't care/hasn't seen you /wants to kill you increase massively. I wouldn't put myself in that position. As much as I'd hate to, I'd get on public transport and ride in safety elsewear later on.

[neilr]

grumbledoak said:

The last few weeks media push have got up my nose, I suppose. And the general persecuted minority attitude perfectly illustrated by the 'we' in the title.

Yes, the bottom 1% of anything is always going to be there. You don't need pathetic faux-scientific evidence for this. Now stop collectively whining as if everyone else is out to get you while individually doing nothing positive about your own safety.

We all have a legal right to use the roads, perhaps if EVERYONE showed a bit more respect for each other (OFF the road as well) and each individual group of road users didnt carry on as if they were perfect then things might be a bit more tolerable, not to mention safe.

Complaining about people complaining doesn't really help does it? it just gets peoples backs up. I'm glad to hear the Police were talking to cyclists near you who jumped red lights etc, I'm all for that, but it's not just cyclists who are at fault, a less biased point of view might be useful.

[paranoid airbag]

It's taken you until now to realise this?

Frankly I'm sick of people dishing out this stupid "assume everyone is out to kill you" advice and acting smart. What, exactly, could I do if someone in a car wants me dead? Unless there's a pavement, precisely fk all.

But don't worry, I'm sure a helmet and hi-vis will stop them turning your organs into soup for having the audacity to hold them up for 20 seconds.

Somehow.

[aizvara]

grumbledoak said:

The last few weeks media push have got up my nose, I suppose. And the general persecuted minority attitude perfectly illustrated by the 'we' in the title.

Yes, the bottom 1% of anything is always going to be there. You don't need pathetic faux-scientific evidence for this. Now stop collectively whining as if everyone else is out to get you while individually doing nothing positive about your own safety.

I was unaware there was a media push. I try to not let the media annoy me. I was also unaware there was a collective. I know a fair few cyclists, but they all have cars, walk and also use public transport. I meet with them as friends and colleagues not as cyclists, and we rarely talk about cycling beyond "bit windy today!".

I think you want to group cyclists as a collective, but I'm not sure why. Seems as odd as grouping all car drivers together to me. I've not agreed to be part of or represented by any collective in either mode of transport.

[WinstonWolf]

grumbledoak said:

aizvara said:

What the hell provoked that response?

The last few weeks media push have got up my nose, I suppose. And the general persecuted minority attitude perfectly illustrated by the 'we' in the title.

Yes, the bottom 1% of anything is always going to be there. You don't need pathetic faux-scientific evidence for this. Now stop collectively whining as if everyone else is out to get you while individually doing nothing positive about your own safety.

Jeez, you got your panties in a bunch pretty darn quick. Is your missus not putting out any more?

[grumbledoak]

WinstonWolf said:

Is your missus not putting out any more?

Most definitely not now.

And a quick semi-scientific study while I was out:
Cyclists seen: 30 (ish)
Hi-vis tops: 3
Head to foot in black with no lights on the bike: 6
Stopped at a red light: 1
Straight through the same red light: 2
On the path to avoid her no right turn: 1
Taking her coat off and putting it in her basket while riding along one of London's busier roads: 1

And here I am back at a thread titled "There's nothing we can do..."

[WinstonWolf]

grumbledoak said:

WinstonWolf said:

Is your missus not putting out any more?

Most definitely not now.

And a quick semi-scientific study while I was out:
Cyclists seen: 30 (ish)
Hi-vis tops: 3
Head to foot in black with no lights on the bike: 6
Stopped at a red light: 1
Straight through the same red light: 2
On the path to avoid her no right turn: 1
Taking her coat off and putting it in her basket while riding along one of London's busier roads: 1

And here I am back at a thread titled "There's nothing we can do..."

no matter what clothing a cyclist wears, around 1-2% of drivers will still pass dangerously close when overtaking.

[Jonathan27]

grumbledoak said:

You could try whining more. Assuming that is actually possible.

[grumbledoak]

WinstonWolf said:

no matter what clothing a cyclist wears, around 1-2% of drivers will still pass dangerously close when overtaking.

Yes. As I said. The bottom few percent will always be there. Out of your control. Did you really need an someone with an "ology" to tell you that?

[WinstonWolf]

grumbledoak said:

WinstonWolf said:

no matter what clothing a cyclist wears, around 1-2% of drivers will still pass dangerously close when overtaking.

Yes. As I said. The bottom few percent will always be there. Out of your control. Did you really need an someone with an "ology" to tell you that?

Nope, those of us who cycle (and therefore look good in Lycra and actually get some ) already know this...

[garrykiller]

wow i really wasnt expecting that much abuse. it was meant as a light hearted post. there are always going to be idoits on the road, cars and cyclists a like. no need to be nasty at all.

[grumbledoak]

It wasn't meant that nastily or personally. But, please stop playing the martyrs. There is a lot cyclists could be doing to help themselves individually. Including, like myself, just plain not cycling in London because I don't like the risk/reward balance. I'll get another bike when I move out.