To restore or not to restore...

[crosseyedlion]

Hi all

Have been running my BMW e34 540iA Touring for over 10k now and its been completely reliable. see: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thing is, now my finances have improved I told myself I was going to get something more modern...but what I actually want is something fresher feeling, I love the car. I love getting out of MUCH nicer cars in my job and driving it home.

I have every confidence it'll keep going until the next decade.

Question is: Theyre getting rare and i'd kick myself if I sold it- should I put some money into it and bring it up to the condition I want? Say I put 5k into it, in another 2-3 years it would be worth 3k ish. If I bought a car for 5k now i'd expect around 3k back, so financially not much different.

Plans:
-Properly remove the double sunroof (its foobared and heavy, plan to get it welded up and roof resprayed, I'd modify the headliner or get a non sunroof one)
-Complete suspension refresh, remove the Self levelling system and replace with quality Bilstein and Eibach bits.
-Convert to manual 6 speed, using all correct factory components.
-Refurb drivers (leather) seat, retrimmed steering wheel - clean the thing to death.
-m5 wheels with decent tyres.
-ANYTHING else.

As I'd do much of the work myself, I think 5k should do it.

How much would a Manual (albeit unoriginal, with over 150k) e34 540 Touring in immaculate condition be worth? There are hardly any left!

Has anyone else hatched similar hair-brained schemes? or faced a similar decision?

Edited by crosseyedlion on Friday 6th December 10:40

[OllieC]

Don't go into this thinking of the values, do it because you want to, and write off what you spend.

anything you get back will be a bonus

[crosseyedlion]

OllieC said:

Don't go into this thinking of the values, do it because you want to, and write off what you spend.

anything you get back will be a bonus

Yes, but I always think in numbers, I'd rather not throw my money down the drain. If it works out as costly (ignoring fuel) as say...a 5k fiesta over 3-5 years, it becomes a lot easier to justify.

May seem like pretty stretched man-maths but its good enough for me.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Well, if you enjoy sitting in front of the fire and chucking in £50 notes....

But then that's what deprecation does anyway.

Just decide how much annual cost you're willing to bear and then spend it the way you choose.

[HustleRussell]

I am thinking of going in a simular direction with my E34, albeit a humble 525i. The only reason I let the car's 'value' come into it is because of insurance. In the bigger scheme of things, £5k is not a lot of money to spend on a car and if that car is the car that you want most of all then it's a no brainer. Who gives a stuff what it's 'worth'?

[crosseyedlion]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Well, if you enjoy sitting in front of the fire and chucking in £50 notes....

But then that's what deprecation does anyway.

Just decide how much annual cost you're willing to bear and then spend it the way you choose.

Well, £200 a month wouldn't phase me. I've been looking at less interesting new cars for £300 and a large deposit recently...at that rate I could spend 10k restoring it(I wouldn't), run it for 3 years and scrap it (I wouldnt) and still be better off than if I bought a new car. Interesting conundrum.

[Devil2575]

crosseyedlion said:

Hi all

Say I put 5k into it, in another 2-3 years it would be worth 3k ish. If I bought a car for 5k now i'd expect around 3k back, so financially not much different.

Would it be worth 3k in 2-3 years time? I'd question that assumption.

[crosseyedlion]

Devil2575 said:

Would it be worth 3k in 2-3 years time? I'd question that assumption.

Well, an e34 manual 540 touring in good condition would be over 2k. They come along so rarely...and its any awesome car.

Silly?

[Devil2575]

crosseyedlion said:

Devil2575 said:

Would it be worth 3k in 2-3 years time? I'd question that assumption.

Well, an e34 manual 540 touring in good condition would be over 2k. They come along so rarely...and its any awesome car.

Silly?

How many miles will yours have on it in 2-3 years? How much will fuel be in 2-3 years? What kind of condition will it be in? Rust? Other mechanical/electrical issues that come with age?

Throwing money at an old car rarely results in you getting any of it back unless it is a proper classic. The E34 isn't there yet.

[crosseyedlion]

I've run lots of old cars, I do most of the work myself. Its a car I know well, The running cost is not likely to be significant.

The gentle rise in used values begs to differ with your assumption. And it would always have some value.

I could be very wrong.

[Devil2575]

You're banking on the value of the car going up. I'd be more inclined to agree if it wasn't going to do any more miles, but I assume you will be using it?

Also given how rare manual E34 540s are it's difficult to value them. Also yours will effectively be modified which could mean it's worth less than a standard factory manual.

I just can't really see a 20 year old 5 series rising in value over the next few years, other than an M5 or a low milage minter.

[TwistingMyMelon]

crosseyedlion said:

Hi all

Have been running my BMW e34 540iA Touring for over 10k now and its been completely reliable. see: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thing is, now my finances have improved I told myself I was going to get something more modern...but what I actually want is something fresher feeling, I love the car. I love getting out of MUCH nicer cars in my job and driving it home.

I have every confidence it'll keep going until the next decade.

Question is: Theyre getting rare and i'd kick myself if I sold it- should I put some money into it and bring it up to the condition I want? Say I put 5k into it, in another 2-3 years it would be worth 3k ish. If I bought a car for 5k now i'd expect around 3k back, so financially not much different.

Plans:
-Properly remove the double sunroof (its foobared and heavy, plan to get it welded up and roof resprayed, I'd modify the headliner or get a non sunroof one)
-Complete suspension refresh, remove the Self levelling system and replace with quality Bilstein and Eibach bits.
-Convert to manual 6 speed, using all correct factory components.
-Refurb drivers (leather) seat, retrimmed steering wheel - clean the thing to death.
-m5 wheels with decent tyres.
-ANYTHING else.

As I'd do much of the work myself, I think 5k should do it.

How much would a Manual (albeit unoriginal, with over 150k) e34 540 Touring in immaculate condition be worth? There are hardly any left!

Has anyone else hatched similar hair-brained schemes? or faced a similar decision?

Edited by crosseyedlion on Friday 6th December 10:40

Nothing against the car, but you might struggle to get 3K for it later, or if you could it would take months to sell due to its niche, plus it will be modified narrowing the market further. . Then again it could sell quickly, but its too much of a risk either way. You can throw as much money at a car and tell yourself how rare it is, but it will still be a un-popular BWW complex estate with near 200K miles on in a few years time.

Personally I would buy something else, or keep as is with general maintenance. Its a lot of weekends worth of work, Ive seen too many projects stall when time becomes an issue .

Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Friday 6th December 11:46

[crosseyedlion]

I would expect the increase in value mostly due to the improvement in condition. I do see your side of it though.

I and many enthusiasts would pay extra for a manual e34 540 over an auto, converted or original.

Due to the mileage and unoriginality it would never be worth significant amounts, I know that.

I paid 1k with shoddy paintwork, non-functional roof and needing some tlc. With those bits sorted I would already expect 2k now.

Maybe i'm just manmaths-ing myself into a corner.

[HustleRussell]

There is too much emphasis on monetary value in this thread. If the OP is keeping the car for several years, or indefinately, it's irrelevant.

OP, you earn your money and you chose what to spend on your car. If you want to restore it, what's stopping you? Don't let the used car market steer you.

ETA: That said, The E34 is no classic and won't be for some time. Even E28s are only just starting to increase in value.

[TwistingMyMelon]

crosseyedlion said:

I would expect the increase in value mostly due to the improvement in condition. I do see your side of it though.

I and many enthusiasts would pay extra for a manual e34 540 over an auto, converted or original.

Due to the mileage and unoriginality it would never be worth significant amounts, I know that.

I paid 1k with shoddy paintwork, non-functional roof and needing some tlc. With those bits sorted I would already expect 2k now.

Maybe i'm just manmaths-ing myself into a corner.

I don't wanna be harsh, but I think you got to go into these things with your eyes open if you concerned with money

Cars are only worth what people are willing to pay, you might think it has doubled in value but its such a narrow market of buyers.

[crosseyedlion]

Thanks for the input everyone, this is all me persuading myself to pull the trigger. But without turning this into a new vs. old, modern vs. old thread - if we all compared what we would be happy to spend for the same enjoyment in a car on finance, many interesting modern classics would be rebuilt and restored to the standard they deserve....but that debate would never end.

[Krikkit]

If you can afford it, I'd spend a few quid tarting up a car you love. Keep it as long as you can and enjoy it!

[wolf1]

Re the sunroof removal. I think you'll find that just welding in a section the roof will never be right afterwards. The only way to do it properly is to re skin the roof itself.

[ChasW]

I'd also factor in whether you will get any pleasure/enjoyment out of the project. You could easily blow £5k on a holiday, golf club membership for a few years etc etc. I parked up to an immaculate early 80s Merc saloon the other day. I think it was a 230/4. Not a classic car by any stretch of the imagination. I spoke to the owner who clearly derived great pleasure from keeping it in tip top condition.

[crosseyedlion]

wolf1 said:

Re the sunroof removal. I think you'll find that just welding in a section the roof will never be right afterwards. The only way to do it properly is to re skin the roof itself.

Yea, this is by far going to be the biggest headache and the most expensive. Might be cheaper for me to scour the world for a working sunroof mechanism...but I don't like the weight and compromised body stiffness. Ill suss it out.