Races for 2014
Discussion
Alright lads,
After this years experiences I've decided (for now) that the plan will be to do a full season of the Scottish Championships, going for the overall win as after the races I done there, I'm pretty confident I could win it.
More interestingly though, due to the races dates announced, instead of just 4 of the eurosaloons rounds, I'll race 6 of 7 GT cup events. It's a step up into the unknown again with 1 x 45 min pit stop race and 2 x 25 min sprints each meeting, but I'm doing it to learn and for the experience. So why not!
My car is acceptable to the organisers but the question is which class should I run in? The options for me are...
GTB class: older GT3 cars limited to 424bhp/ton at the flywheel.- mostly Porsche cup, M3's etc
GTO class: Open class limited to 475bhp per ton at the flywheel.- a mix of TVR, Mosler, 458/430 Challenge cars etc
So running low boost 500ish I can either go straight into GTO but for GTB I need to add 100kg of ballast.
It's a tricky one to decide as If I go for GTO, my tyres will have less weight but more power to deal with, I'll be able to stop, turn and accelerate faster but I'm also now familiar to this set up . If I add the weight and go with GTB I'll maybe learn to use the power better but I'll have more weight to throw around and will wear tyres, brakes and load parts like driveshafts/gearbox more. I'm not sure I want to be stuck in the thick of the Porsche pack either!
What do you think will give a better racing experience and more reliability from the car, Less weight and more power with the heavyweights or more weight and play with the middle weights? Lol
G
After this years experiences I've decided (for now) that the plan will be to do a full season of the Scottish Championships, going for the overall win as after the races I done there, I'm pretty confident I could win it.
More interestingly though, due to the races dates announced, instead of just 4 of the eurosaloons rounds, I'll race 6 of 7 GT cup events. It's a step up into the unknown again with 1 x 45 min pit stop race and 2 x 25 min sprints each meeting, but I'm doing it to learn and for the experience. So why not!
My car is acceptable to the organisers but the question is which class should I run in? The options for me are...
GTB class: older GT3 cars limited to 424bhp/ton at the flywheel.- mostly Porsche cup, M3's etc
GTO class: Open class limited to 475bhp per ton at the flywheel.- a mix of TVR, Mosler, 458/430 Challenge cars etc
So running low boost 500ish I can either go straight into GTO but for GTB I need to add 100kg of ballast.
It's a tricky one to decide as If I go for GTO, my tyres will have less weight but more power to deal with, I'll be able to stop, turn and accelerate faster but I'm also now familiar to this set up . If I add the weight and go with GTB I'll maybe learn to use the power better but I'll have more weight to throw around and will wear tyres, brakes and load parts like driveshafts/gearbox more. I'm not sure I want to be stuck in the thick of the Porsche pack either!
What do you think will give a better racing experience and more reliability from the car, Less weight and more power with the heavyweights or more weight and play with the middle weights? Lol
G
That would be ideal but expensive, would it really make that much a difference changing turbos? Could my GT28's not be mapped to improve the low boost map rather than just going with waste gate pressure?
Need to bear in mind the Scottish races are unlimited in class A so I can use all the power available if needbe.
Also the car drives so smoothly and is manageable torque at the moment, the higher I push that the more likely I am to end up with a handful of a car.
Need to bear in mind the Scottish races are unlimited in class A so I can use all the power available if needbe.
Also the car drives so smoothly and is manageable torque at the moment, the higher I push that the more likely I am to end up with a handful of a car.
Edited by Hollowpockets on Saturday 7th December 19:52
I'm leaning towards the open class as I'm sure the car has more to give than I've managed so far, perhaps better front callipers and the suspension/anti roll bar needs stiffened up again, even though the top couple of £200,000k cars will be off I think I could put up a good fight with the rest, whereas I'm not sure if I'm quite there (or the car) experience wise to battle with the Porsches on a level playing field.
Either way the aim of the game is track time and learning. I'm sure I'll do plenty of both wherever I am in the pack.
Will need to look at a few bits of kit for pit stops etc, wheel guns, pit boards and or radios too I guess. Anyone know if I'll need a water bottle/pouch for 45 minute race? Lots to figure out!
G
Either way the aim of the game is track time and learning. I'm sure I'll do plenty of both wherever I am in the pack.
Will need to look at a few bits of kit for pit stops etc, wheel guns, pit boards and or radios too I guess. Anyone know if I'll need a water bottle/pouch for 45 minute race? Lots to figure out!
G
100kg of movable balast could be an advantage. you could cure any understeer issues or use it to balance your own weight at the side. get the car on corner scales and you could balance it out really well. Your cars so much lighter than standard anyway adding back 100kg isnt going to put too much strain on components surely?
Graham, our cars get hot being mid engine, maybe not as hot as a racing Noble, I've never felt I needed a drink. Fluids on before and after, even the second forty mins I haven't needed one and I'm normally poring myself out off the car!!
Out of interest have you thought of a team name??
Nobs-R-us has a good ring
Out of interest have you thought of a team name??
Nobs-R-us has a good ring
GTO600 said:
If it were me the last thing l would want to do is add weight.
I'd change the turbos for the same as Adrain's & map the car to meet the max bhp allowed & keep the torque high that way you should be able to get a really good power band with loads of torque.
Kevin
I agree with Kevin, less weight has more advantages especially turning and stopping, the smaller turbo's should make less heat, have less lag, you wont beat me in a drag race (get Trevor to show you the Dyno Graphs) disadvantage is you will be running them flat out all the time, so may break one or two. I'd change the turbos for the same as Adrain's & map the car to meet the max bhp allowed & keep the torque high that way you should be able to get a really good power band with loads of torque.
Kevin
Adrian W said:
GTO600 said:
If it were me the last thing l would want to do is add weight.
I'd change the turbos for the same as Adrain's & map the car to meet the max bhp allowed & keep the torque high that way you should be able to get a really good power band with loads of torque.
Kevin
I agree with Kevin, less weight has more advantages especially turning and stopping, the smaller turbo's should make less heat, have less lag, you wont beat me in a drag race (get Trevor to show you the Dyno Graphs) disadvantage is you will be running them flat out all the time, so may break one or two. I'd change the turbos for the same as Adrain's & map the car to meet the max bhp allowed & keep the torque high that way you should be able to get a really good power band with loads of torque.
Kevin
I'd not add weight, but I wouldn't change the turbos as the small one will be running harder and thus hotter!.
We are already capping torque down low to save the box, my biggest issue would be proving your not using the higher boost of your car... If you win consistently there will be claims you used your higher power settings and you will need to prove you were not?
I agree Mark, having the ability to balance it out would be good, but the car still handles pretty well as it's corner weighted to be even across front and rear wheels, if you watch my Donington race video you can see I drive most if the race with one hand on the steering wheel. Naughty I know but it's a bad habit I didn't realise I had, I'm trying to stop that but it shows how well the car behaves. 100kg is 10% of the cars weight, an extra 100kg on drive shafts/clutch/gearbox in race conditions could easily be enough to destroy something.
Sounds right enough Paul, I probably would manage without water, not thought about team names though, 'Fearless Scottish Nob ??? Lol
Adrian, I agree the smaller turbos will get me to that limit slightly quicker BUT, does the lag argument really matter on circuit? as once the race has started, the revs are always high and I've never had the feeling that it's not on boost. As you say they will be flat out all the time, I need to keep reliability the main focus as there are so many cars who have problems, my best chance of doing well is consistency so maybe I should stick with what already works, unless you can go and destroy my lap time at Donington then I'll take the advice and spend the money
haha
Cheers
Graham
Andy the organisers of GT cup fit data loggers to the cars so they know if you have done something, when you register a technical declaration needs submitted with cars weight, a copy of the map, the max boost for any turbo cars and it must all fall within 5% of the 475bhp per ton, flywheel power.
Cheating isn't an option.
Andy I'm not going to win consistently even with full power, lol, Mosler MT900 - 458 GT3 - Porsche GT3 cup cars are set up far better than mine and they're all more experienced. I'll just be happy to finish in a respectable top 10 spot.
Sounds right enough Paul, I probably would manage without water, not thought about team names though, 'Fearless Scottish Nob ??? Lol
Adrian, I agree the smaller turbos will get me to that limit slightly quicker BUT, does the lag argument really matter on circuit? as once the race has started, the revs are always high and I've never had the feeling that it's not on boost. As you say they will be flat out all the time, I need to keep reliability the main focus as there are so many cars who have problems, my best chance of doing well is consistency so maybe I should stick with what already works, unless you can go and destroy my lap time at Donington then I'll take the advice and spend the money
hahaCheers
Graham
Andy the organisers of GT cup fit data loggers to the cars so they know if you have done something, when you register a technical declaration needs submitted with cars weight, a copy of the map, the max boost for any turbo cars and it must all fall within 5% of the 475bhp per ton, flywheel power.
Cheating isn't an option.
Andy I'm not going to win consistently even with full power, lol, Mosler MT900 - 458 GT3 - Porsche GT3 cup cars are set up far better than mine and they're all more experienced. I'll just be happy to finish in a respectable top 10 spot.
Edited by Hollowpockets on Sunday 8th December 09:37
Hi Graham , both sound like great fun but they both require a pretty strong engine / gearbox / car , 1x 45 min on a cool day is going too be pretty hard on the car , change it too a hot summers day and things could get pretty hot , I would suggest running in the GTO class but instead of adding weight why not reduce power further , this will help with fuel economy , heat and general wear and tear , you could also run 2 seperate ECU between the 2 championships .
Is there a cap on torque levels ? If not I suggest a map with high torque levels but heavily reduced peak RPM power this should give you a good advantage over the NA cars .
Just a thought .
Tux
Is there a cap on torque levels ? If not I suggest a map with high torque levels but heavily reduced peak RPM power this should give you a good advantage over the NA cars .
Just a thought .
Tux
Tux the GTO class is the top one so I don't need to add weight or reduce power, running current 500bhp at the current weight puts it bang on the power limit. I'll probably get the map done so it gives more torque than the current low boost of 420lb/ft but so it tails off and keeps power below the 500bhp mark at high revs.
Two ECU's or two separate maps will be required probably but I'll speak to the man and see what can be done.
Based on what I've seen this year, heat isn't a problem if I keep it to low boost it would go all day long. All the extra venting, water injection and the reduced weight of 1040kg seems to have really helped the car. the only time I see temps rising and signs of problems is when I use high boost (and the boost spikes off the scale) so that won't be happening in the GT cup anyway thanks to the power to weight limit, this new MBE will cure that boost spike though but for high boost I would bet it wouldn't last 45 minutes.
G
Two ECU's or two separate maps will be required probably but I'll speak to the man and see what can be done.
Based on what I've seen this year, heat isn't a problem if I keep it to low boost it would go all day long. All the extra venting, water injection and the reduced weight of 1040kg seems to have really helped the car. the only time I see temps rising and signs of problems is when I use high boost (and the boost spikes off the scale) so that won't be happening in the GT cup anyway thanks to the power to weight limit, this new MBE will cure that boost spike though but for high boost I would bet it wouldn't last 45 minutes.
G
Yeah Paul, it would also be good if someone buys your car and comes racing with me, I only wish I had started racing the Noble back when Mal, Richard and Paul were racing, its a shame there wasn't a one make series for these machines!
I've been looking back at the race results from the previous Nobles, they have had great results for back then, I'm not trying to take anything away from what they achieved as my car probably has things that weren't available back then. BUT it looks like I've either matched or beaten the lap times by a number of seconds on what was previously done. The times I've been doing would be winning those races, now the competition is faster though and I need to find more time in me and the car. Should be a fun challenge.
Yes I'm bored
So the general consensus is, pump up the torque and don't add weight. Thank you all for the advice. I shall go top class and all out for the wins
show them what a Noble can do in amongst those GT/Challenge cars.
Graham
I've been looking back at the race results from the previous Nobles, they have had great results for back then, I'm not trying to take anything away from what they achieved as my car probably has things that weren't available back then. BUT it looks like I've either matched or beaten the lap times by a number of seconds on what was previously done. The times I've been doing would be winning those races, now the competition is faster though and I need to find more time in me and the car. Should be a fun challenge.
Yes I'm bored
So the general consensus is, pump up the torque and don't add weight. Thank you all for the advice. I shall go top class and all out for the wins
show them what a Noble can do in amongst those GT/Challenge cars.Graham
Sorry, To follow up your idea Si, your right about making life easier on the car, I just couldn't turn down the power to 430bhp after spending so much time, effort and money to make it reliably powerful and mega fun. Plus it would be .3 bar actuators and about 6-7psi boost lol. Then to change it all back to 550-600 for the Scottish races would be hassle every time.
Looks like I'll get some hospitality passes with my entry's, so unless I have work clients/sponsors visiting you lads will be welcome to them. Looks like they put on a good set up this crowd!
G
Looks like I'll get some hospitality passes with my entry's, so unless I have work clients/sponsors visiting you lads will be welcome to them. Looks like they put on a good set up this crowd!
G
Why not run in the lower class with less power but with the setup to hold that peak power as long as you can, a bit like the old WRC cars used to?
Would need a decent boost controller i would have though but would make for a killer drive. Also when moving up to the next level you would just need to change the map to allow higher boost at higher RPM....
Would need a decent boost controller i would have though but would make for a killer drive. Also when moving up to the next level you would just need to change the map to allow higher boost at higher RPM....
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