Went to buy an early 997 today but......

[a4ash]

The car is a dec 04/54 reg 3.8s in seal grey with 19" carrera classic wheels, full black leather and sports chrono, no other options at all. It's done 79,000 miles with 4 stamps in the book, 2 by supplying dealer Porsche Kendal and 2 by specialist cars of malton but heres the but... there is no other books or invoices/paperwork with the car only the reg doc, mot and service book. There is only 1 key which doesn't work remotely and is falling to pieces, there is slight judder under heavy breaking and the clutch was starting to slip under hard acceleration. The dealer isn't prepared to negotiate on price as he says he has nothing left in it and it's priced to sell. The car is £19,750 and I've been offered £5750 for my 07/57 BMW 120d M Sport which is I feel pretty low as well.

Should alarm bells be ringing or is the car priced alright considering?

If I was to buy it, what would i expect to be paying for 2 new keys, replacement clutch and possibly brakes?

I've been browsing the classifieds for quite some time now and now I've finally decided the time is right to take the plunge so don't want to go cold on the idea and end up keeping the beemer

[993kimbo]

Can't help you with most of it, but I am continually amazed at dealers who have no paperwork or bills with a car that sort of mileage, doesn't matter what car it is.

"It hasn't needed anything".

[6C4GTS]

2 keys discs pads and a clutch will be nearly 3k!

Run forrest!

[csmith319]

a4ash said:

The car is a dec 04/54 reg 3.8s in seal grey with 19" carrera classic wheels, full black leather and sports chrono, no other options at all. It's done 79,000 miles with 4 stamps in the book, 2 by supplying dealer Porsche Kendal and 2 by specialist cars of malton but heres the but... there is no other books or invoices/paperwork with the car only the reg doc, mot and service book. There is only 1 key which doesn't work remotely and is falling to pieces, there is slight judder under heavy breaking and the clutch was starting to slip under hard acceleration. The dealer isn't prepared to negotiate on price as he says he has nothing left in it and it's priced to sell. The car is £19,750 and I've been offered £5750 for my 07/57 BMW 120d M Sport which is I feel pretty low as well.

Should alarm bells be ringing or is the car priced alright considering?

If I was to buy it, what would i expect to be paying for 2 new keys, replacement clutch and possibly brakes?

I've been browsing the classifieds for quite some time now and now I've finally decided the time is right to take the plunge so don't want to go cold on the idea and end up keeping the beemer

So they are great cars - this isn't the only one you'll see so don't jump in.

However, it seems like you've uncovered at least a couple of things - full brakes at an Indie will cost around £1200 (thats discs and pads all round incl. labour) - clutch not sure but reckon on a grand. Get the IMS upgraded at the same time and you should avoid the engine grenading itself on you.

http://www.rpmtechnik.co.uk/servicing/fixed-price/...

Here are some costs at a reputable Indie.

However, there are other things that you would want to look at, get the engine checked out to make sure it's not scored (think thats relatively simple) and get the suspension checkout - at this mileage you may need things renewed such as track rods, bushes etc. You would need a full geo after that lot - but thats not too expensive, £200 at a decent Indie again.

You didn't mention tyres - but with keys (maybe a couple of hundred a go) I wouldn't be surprised if you need to spend £5K before it's fresh again. Check radiators, air con condensers too.

If your heart is set on a 997, then I personally think £25K is a more realistic cost to budget (either this way, or as an upfront price). The other similar 911 options would be best of the market 996 (e.g. C4S). Personally I've never looked back with my 997 and would recommend going for a 997, I've had a bit of cost (brakes for example) but thats part and parcel of these cars. A 996 isn't going to be any cheaper to run.

[griffter]

It's cheap for a 3.8S and the books and impending bills are the reason why. You could try contacting the previous owner, but personally I'd leave it. Try a dealer with BMW stock. They're likely to give a reasonable px if they can retail it themselves.

[sleep envy]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

You'll easily spend £2-3k on that

I'd rather this one

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

[a4ash]

Thanks for all the input, my head is kind of telling me that I should walk away and keep looking. I'm pretty much set on a 997 3.8s as it will be my only car other than a cheap £800 van for doing the crappy jobs and short trips to work etc.

Sleep envy, yes thats the car in your first link

[V8KSN]

a4ash said:

The car is a dec 04/54 reg 3.8s in seal grey with 19" carrera classic wheels, full black leather and sports chrono, no other options at all. It's done 79,000 miles with 4 stamps in the book, 2 by supplying dealer Porsche Kendal and 2 by specialist cars of malton but heres the but... there is no other books or invoices/paperwork with the car only the reg doc, mot and service book. There is only 1 key which doesn't work remotely and is falling to pieces, there is slight judder under heavy breaking and the clutch was starting to slip under hard acceleration. The dealer isn't prepared to negotiate on price as he says he has nothing left in it and it's priced to sell. The car is £19,750 and I've been offered £5750 for my 07/57 BMW 120d M Sport which is I feel pretty low as well.

Should alarm bells be ringing or is the car priced alright considering?

If I was to buy it, what would i expect to be paying for 2 new keys, replacement clutch and possibly brakes?

I've been browsing the classifieds for quite some time now and now I've finally decided the time is right to take the plunge so don't want to go cold on the idea and end up keeping the beemer

Run away screaming!!! When you get home, have a cup of tea and be happy that you have just saved yourself a fortune!

There are so many cars out there that you should be spoilt for choice. Have a word with RSJ or 911 Virgin and ask them to find you a good one ..... For real peace of mind, find one that has had a Hartech rebuild

[RSGulp]

This lack of history file with cars, especially Porsche, always irritates me.

Every car I've ever owned has been meticulously looked after, maintained and serviced and every receipt has been filed, every MOT kept and even old tax discs put into a plastic wallet. When trading the car in the receiving dealer has always been really impressed with the car and history and the part-ex value (usually) reflects this.

But when handing the car over all they'll ever take is the manufacturer's document wallet with the service book and manuals, the V5 and the current MOT if applicable. They won't even take the history file off me quoting some rubbish about data protection. It's a real shame as it removes all the provenance for the next owner.

Edited by RSGulp on Sunday 8th December 21:05

[mollytherocker]

I would happily wager that the car needs much more spending on it than you have found. Have you fully inspected it?

With those issues, its likely to have just had basic servicing with the owner selling it now that all of the usual stuff is due.

I bet it needs coffin arms, rads, paint etc etc.

[dank]

I'd leave it, plenty good cars around, just wait for the right good one, this sounds like a potential mine field with some big bills to get the car spot on,

Agree 25k is around the price for a decent one, all need money spending on them, but better to spend more on a better car in the first place, should work out better in the long run, no history and keys etc, all set alarm bells ringing... Leave it

Personally I'd leave the 997 alone and go for a good 996 turbo from an indie, piece of mind, performance and no scary engine gremlins, looks meaner too

[pete.g]

See if the dealer will give the previous owner's details (or sneak a peek at the V5) and try to get in touch. Maybe he/she can give you more details and may have more history. ETA - this car does have a history - it's been serviced in line with manufacturer's schedule.

I wouldn't rule this car out - a full set of Pagid discs/pads is currently £400 from Euro Car Parts and a set of locks. keys and ECU is on ebay for £350. You could do this work yourself if you're at all handy.

A clutch might be £1000 or slightly more.

At least then you'd be sure of the work.

I think 997s have now reached the age where DIY owners can consider them.

I think an inspection might give you a better idea - obviously if it throws up £1000s of work, then walk.

[996TT02]

The juddering may not be brakes, so better look into. Brakes are not expensive to do if you DIY, and they are not at all difficult to do either, so quite honestly you'd be better off if it were. And having said that even if it were brakes it is not a given that all 4 discs and pads would need replacing, this would be quite a worst case scenario. I just replaced the rears on mine because they were worn but the fronts were done by a previous owner several 10k's miles ago.

So check the juddering out, could be a suspension issue, any online suppositions are just that, only a proper inspection would be meaningful.

The clutch - if it's slipping then you are looking at around 1k, several specialists show their pricing on their sites, however be prepared for other stuff to require attention at the same time so I would say 1.5k more realistic.

Keys no idea.

Everything else mentioned by others needs looking at, rads, etc, but then this would be the case for any other car you look at.

Quite frankly I don't know what an equivalent vehicle that does not APPEAR to have these issues costs, if there is a worthwhile saving over and above the cost to repair, then why not? A car with a clutch that does not slip today comes with no guarantee that it won't start slipping tomorrow, unless perhaps if it has just been replaced.

Again as previously mentioned consider IMS issues and prevention, failure can make issues such as clutches and keys pretty insignificant.

[mollytherocker]

Yep, good post.

[jimmy p]

The advert annoys me for the car, they mention "GREAT HISTORY" and the car has none bar a few stamps in a service book. There are far better ones out there, keep looking is my advice!!

[csmith319]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Don't know for sure but I've read about stronger aftermarket (LN Engineering?) bearings that people have used. Agree re bores as mentioned, think that's a cheap check?

My brakes juddered btw, was due to corroded inner surfaces of the discs, likely happened a while before I got it. Once changed the brakes were transformed.

[jcelee]

One broken key and no books - an ex-salvage car?
As others have said very rarely such a thing as a cheap Porsche. Given the time of year there should be quite a lot of wiggle room in most privately advertised cars (otherwise they'd wait until late spring to sell them). Therefore, perhaps look for something privately owned and cherished at the bottom end of the market?

[WindyMiller67]

I think privately buying a car of this age makes good sense too. It's likely to still have all the paperwork (Data Protection stops dealers taking it - what??!!) and you can make a judgement (fairly or not) on how well the car is likely to have been maintained and cherished when you meet the vendor at their house.

[Zoin]

a4ash said:

what would i expect to be paying for 2 new keys

I just ordered a new key for my 996 and it's a shade over £300. I'd assume the cost is similar for a 997.

£81 of that is for programming so, since you'll only have to pay that once for both keys, the total cost for a pair of keys would be around £520.

[ORD]

Are you kidding? I cannot believe that pricing!