Matt's Pug 205 1.9 GTI - Now 2.0 16v

[mattrg]

Hi Guys,

Just joined up and thought I would start by introducing my weekend toy. I'll add more details if anyone is interested but i'll start with a potted history...

The car was owned by a good friend of mine 10 years ago. was a tidy example but had a few issues and said friend wanted to give it a freshen up so took it off the road. Life got in the way and it ended up off the road for many years. He lost motivation and then sold it to my best mate. Same happened but this time it ended up sat in a field (fortunately on hardstanding) for many years.

I then bought it four years ago, finally restored it (ish - it's not mint yet but pretty tidy and improving constantly) fitted a 16v from a 306 GTI-6 (I say fitted, Pug racing did this bit as I ran out of time/talent), uprated the suspension (rebuilt beam etc) and have enjoyed using it hard but looking after it.

A few pics...

As purchased - looking a bit sorry for itself



And a couple of more recent ones...







Will update with a bit more of the build as I go.

This is the daily driver that keeps it company...



On the lookout for a nice Monaro VXR to join the fleet at the mo'

Edited by mattrg on Wednesday 11th December 20:19

[aspirated]

She looks a beauty Nice duo you have there, a RWD V8 will finish it right off

[GringoG60]

That's a lovely 205 I doff the hat and pat on the back for finishing something two others couldn't.

[mattrg]

So, little update.

This arrived today..



13 row cooler, thermostatic sandwich plate and all the paraphernalia needed to fit it so will get that sorted over the next couple of weeks...

bought this a couple of months ago to keep the Pug company (that has it's own thread so won't clog this thread with the detail)



The Merc has now gone and has been replaced by an Insignia 1.8.... a price which I had to pay to have the Monaro and this. :-)

[Caddyshack]

Nice couple of cars! I have a steel grey 1.9 and miles put the same in for me. I a. Slowly restoring mine to make it nice and factory looking. What gearbox has yours got? Mine still has the 1.9 box but I am going to drop to the 1.6 final drive along with LSD as even though it IS QUICKER, my 1.6 gti felt more alive and revive compared to the gti6 on the 1.9 box

[ecain63]

Hi mate.

Quick bit of info ref gearboxes and the GTi-6 lump (if you want it).

I think i was one of the first to run a Gti-6 lump in a 205 and as a result quite a bit of time was spent doing trial and error fits with gearboxes and driveshafts. My findings:

205 1.9 GTi box: Decent leg range but prone to breaking and its position when mated to the GTi-6 led to loads of shaft breakages (overheating CV joints).

205 1.6 GTi box: Really good for B-road and A-road work but on the motorway you'll get a headache being sat at such high revs. Not any weaker than the 1.9 box in theory but the 3 i had did suffer on the track due to rough syncing and one even left me scuppered with a 600 mile homeward bound drive and only 3 gears to do it with. Loooooooong day! Good fun box but short gear length.

Solution:

Either a 205 diesel 5 speed box or the box out of a Xsara / Saxo diesel. Much stronger throughout, and the Xsara box is quite leggy in the higher gears meaning its nice on the motorway. Fitted with a Quaife the Xsara box never let me down, not even when i had the 240bhp BTCC GTi-6 engine installed. Never broke any shafts with the diesel box either.

[Caddyshack]

Thanks for the info. Mine might go on track but it is 5th car for b road fun so the 1.6 might be well suited. I understand the the 1.9 and 1.6 boxes are exactly the same. According to pug racing just the final drive so would this affect the running gear / cv/ drive shafts?

[djgritt]

Pics of the Insignia needed, sounds fast and not atall dull...

[PaulGT3]

I also have a G reg with xu10j4rs, best gearbox in my opinion is the Xsara VTS box. Made for the engine, reliable, nice ratios and none of the issues of fitting a GTI-6 box.

[mattrg]

djgritt said:

Pics of the Insignia needed, sounds fast and not atall dull...

Haha, Hello Dave didn't know you were on here.

[mattrg]

Caddyshack said:

Nice couple of cars! I have a steel grey 1.9 and miles put the same in for me. I a. Slowly restoring mine to make it nice and factory looking. What gearbox has yours got? Mine still has the 1.9 box but I am going to drop to the 1.6 final drive along with LSD as even though it IS QUICKER, my 1.6 gti felt more alive and revive compared to the gti6 on the 1.9 box

Oooh, steel grey. Very nice colour.

This still has the 1.9 box. seems to suit it pretty well for what I use it for. I think the 1.6 box would do my head in at high speed as it's pretty revvy with the 1.9 box.

I should really have kept the Xsara's box and fitted that but for some reason didn't at the time.

If the 1.9 box goes i'll probably replace it with a Xsara one.

[dom9]

Will follow this one with interest... I'll have to have another one, restored, one of these days!

[TheJimi]

ecain63 said:

Either a 205 diesel 5 speed box or the box out of a Xsara / Saxo diesel. Much stronger throughout, and the Xsara box is quite leggy in the higher gears meaning its nice on the motorway. Fitted with a Quaife the Xsara box never let me down, not even when i had the 240bhp BTCC GTi-6 engine installed. Never broke any shafts with the diesel box either.

Correct, and that's exactly what Peugeot Ecosse did with the GTi-6 conversion on my mate's 205 back in the day. My other mate had the Mi16 conversion, which used the 1.6 'box, but with a modified fifth gear, iirc.

Btw, 240hp in a 205 must've been quick! Was it running ITB's?

[ninjacost]

xsara boxes are best bet I wrecked 5 be3 boxes (admittedly ebay specials ) last season in my 300bhp 205 maxi, fitted vts box and its been fine so far touch wood

TheJimi said:

ecain63 said:

Either a 205 diesel 5 speed box or the box out of a Xsara / Saxo diesel. Much stronger throughout, and the Xsara box is quite leggy in the higher gears meaning its nice on the motorway. Fitted with a Quaife the Xsara box never let me down, not even when i had the 240bhp BTCC GTi-6 engine installed. Never broke any shafts with the diesel box either.

Correct, and that's exactly what Peugeot Ecosse did with the GTi-6 conversion on my mate's 205 back in the day. My other mate had the Mi16 conversion, which used the 1.6 'box, but with a modified fifth gear, iirc.

Btw, 240hp in a 205 must've been quick! Was it running ITB's?

[ecain63]

TheJimi said:

Btw, 240hp in a 205 must've been quick! Was it running ITB's?

No, the standard variable inlet is the best design for the gti-6. Saying that some owners cut the inlet down by 1/3, re welded and then polished internally with good results. My engine came out of a Longman BTCC car and was cammed, ported, balanced, custom manifold etc and on an omex ecu. It was a sod not to stall when pulling away but very good fun. Only weighed 675kg if I remember correctly. Quaife diff was the best mod in my opinion with that power.

[Aydena]

mattrg said:

Haha, Hello Dave didn't know you were on here.

Dave's not the only one

[205pat]

Can't beat a GTi-6 205:



I'm running the 1.6 box. I get what people say about the VTS box and yes it is definitely better on long trips, but how often do you use it on the motorway? For having a blast out on some twisty roads, the 1.6 is spot on.

[mattrg]

Aydena said:

Dave's not the only one

It's an invasion

[shalmaneser]

ecain63 said:

Hi mate.

Quick bit of info ref gearboxes and the GTi-6 lump (if you want it).

I think i was one of the first to run a Gti-6 lump in a 205 and as a result quite a bit of time was spent doing trial and error fits with gearboxes and driveshafts. My findings:

205 1.9 GTi box: Decent leg range but prone to breaking and its position when mated to the GTi-6 led to loads of shaft breakages (overheating CV joints).

205 1.6 GTi box: Really good for B-road and A-road work but on the motorway you'll get a headache being sat at such high revs. Not any weaker than the 1.9 box in theory but the 3 i had did suffer on the track due to rough syncing and one even left me scuppered with a 600 mile homeward bound drive and only 3 gears to do it with. Loooooooong day! Good fun box but short gear length.

Solution:

Either a 205 diesel 5 speed box or the box out of a Xsara / Saxo diesel. Much stronger throughout, and the Xsara box is quite leggy in the higher gears meaning its nice on the motorway. Fitted with a Quaife the Xsara box never let me down, not even when i had the 240bhp BTCC GTi-6 engine installed. Never broke any shafts with the diesel box either.

Really? I smell something.

Gearbox position is identical across the XU range as is driveshaft position.

Best gearbox is the one from the Xsara VTS.

Nice car, OP!

[ecain63]

shalmaneser said:

Really? I smell something.

Gearbox position is identical across the XU range as is driveshaft position.

Best gearbox is the one from the Xsara VTS.

Nice car, OP!

You smell what?

With the GTi-6 engine in there the gearbox was slightly off from OEM position (same as Mi-16 issue). Which in my case caused a good number of shaft failures and also the requirement for modded linkages. As my car was one of the first to have a GTi-6 engine fitted (home fitted) then maybe i didn't have the luxury of off-the-shelf engine mounts for the 205/GTi-6 mating, which came along later, and which i did then fit. Other issues i had (due to being a fairly trial and error build) was getting the speedo to work, loom wiring to incorporate more modern 306 sensors, and more.

Here are some pics of the car. Thanks for jumping straight for the throat.

First one i built. Standard apart from brakes, manifold and induction.




Second, more serious one i built (from a mint 205 GRD shell). Longman BTCC engine. CompB brakes, tuned exhaust, blah blah blah.













Only a tiny pic but my first 205 did compete in an FHM comp at Santa Pod.