Why no practical small rear wheel drive cars?

[Kawasicki]

Surely there is a market. Or am I wrong?

I drive an old BMW E30...I was following a new 1 series the other night, it looks completely massive! My friend has a Toyota Yaris...we swapped cars for a short drive...the Yaris is massive inside compared to the E30.

For most of my driving I don't need anything bigger than an E30. It fits five average sized people..yes it's tight...but it is a small car. It's fairly light and good on fuel, it's also fun to drive.

The Nissan IDX Free flow is a step in the right direction. It's wider and less tall than the E30, by about 50mm...and also about 200mm shorter than an E30, so it seems to be a bit more of a 2&2 coupe, rather than a small 5 seater. Still I'm impressed! Please build it Nissan!

[McWigglebum4th]

As most buyers don't give a fk about RWD

If I waved a magic wand and converted every single BMW diesel to FWD do you think many owners would notice?

[kambites]

The Tata Nano?

[DocArbathnot]

It's about cost and packaging. RWD stuff takes a lot of interior space which most buyers baulk at.

[DoubleSix]

Tis the reason I cant seem to let go my 5 door 130i...

[Kawasicki]

DocArbathnot said:

It's about cost and packaging. RWD stuff takes a lot of interior space which most buyers baulk at.

I'm not sure it does though. Most of Audi's range is available with both fwd and awd...do the awd versions have less interior space. Are the fwd versions uncompetitive for interior space?

[98elise]

McWigglebum4th said:

As most buyers don't give a fk about RWD

If I waved a magic wand and converted every single BMW diesel to FWD do you think many owners would notice?

This, FWD is the simplest and best configuration for the small car market. For 99% of people RWD would only bring disadvantages.

[kambites]

Kawasicki said:

I'm not sure it does though. Most of Audi's range is available with both fwd and awd...do the awd versions have less interior space. Are the fwd versions uncompetitive for interior space?

The small 4WD Audis have the engine mounted transversely. It would probably be immensely inefficient to push all of the power to the rear wheels while keeping the engine that way around.

I think the Quattro A3s also have less boot space (or possibly no space for a spare wheel) because of the space the diff takes up.

[Kawasicki]

98elise said:

McWigglebum4th said:

As most buyers don't give a fk about RWD

If I waved a magic wand and converted every single BMW diesel to FWD do you think many owners would notice?

This, FWD is the simplest and best configuration for the small car market. For 99% of people RWD would only bring disadvantages.

So this one car might have 1% of the market to itself...wow, huge sales ahead...I'm joking, but I honestly think that if the car was well developed, it could offer something unique.

[Kawasicki]

kambites said:

Kawasicki said:

I'm not sure it does though. Most of Audi's range is available with both fwd and awd...do the awd versions have less interior space. Are the fwd versions uncompetitive for interior space?

The small 4WD Audis have the engine mounted transversely. It would probably be immensely inefficient to push all of the power to the rear wheels while keeping the engine that way around.

I think the Quattro A3s also have less boot space (or possibly no space for a spare wheel) because of the space the diff takes up.

Does the A4 suffer in interior space?

[A900ss]

Kawasicki said:

DocArbathnot said:

It's about cost and packaging. RWD stuff takes a lot of interior space which most buyers baulk at.

do the awd versions have less interior space.

The A3's have less space (shallower boot) and smaller fuel tanks to make space for the driveshafts.

Also, don't forget the Haldex Audi system in the small cars is set up for FWD most of the time and assistance from the rear when needed. It can't transmit 100% of the power to the rear. (I believe).

[Buff Mchugelarge]

I've got an E36 compact.

People who want RWD cars don't usually buy small cars.
The 1 Series has been an amazing success for BMW and they are good cars but I can't imagine the same success if they were the same size as a fiat 500 for example. and they'd cost a fortune with no real benefits.

[kambites]

Kawasicki said:

Does the A4 suffer in interior space?

The A4 is a much bigger car than the 1-series which you were complaining is too big. It's also pretty cramped to begin with for the size of car.

[DocArbathnot]

Kawasicki said:

DocArbathnot said:

It's about cost and packaging. RWD stuff takes a lot of interior space which most buyers baulk at.

I'm not sure it does though. Most of Audi's range is available with both fwd and awd...do the awd versions have less interior space. Are the fwd versions uncompetitive for interior space?

Small Audis do not have proper FWD, they are all front wheel drive with a haldex take off. Older A3q and TTs with Q drive have a smaller boot.

look at the interior space in a BMW 1 series and you will see what I mean.

[DoubleSix]

Kawasicki said:

Does the A4 suffer in interior space?

Well you do have that transmission tunnel meaning no foot well in centre rear. I found i couldnt put our baby seat in my prefered central position because of this...

[rhoran00]

I'd be interested to see the dimensions of a gt86/brz compared to an e30. I think the e30 Will actually be smaller, but there's certainly not much room for 4 in a gt86!

Thank crash safety combined with a coupe design for that.

[Kawasicki]

DoubleSix said:

Kawasicki said:

Does the A4 suffer in interior space?

Well you do have that transmission tunnel meaning no foot well in centre rear. I found i couldnt put our baby seat in my prefered central position because of this...

Many fwd cars have a tunnel too, it's smaller...but it still gets in the way.

[VinceFox]

rhoran00 said:

I'd be interested to see the dimensions of a gt86/brz compared to an e30. I think the e30 Will actually be smaller, but there's certainly not much room for 4 in a gt86!

Thank crash safety combined with a coupe design for that.

Ive got a pic of my e36 parked next to a gt86 somewhere. The gt86 is a tiny bit bigger.

[kambites]

Kawasicki said:

Many fwd cars have a tunnel too, it's smaller...but it still gets in the way.

Yes but what they don't (usually) have is a longitudinal engine forcing the front firewall backwards. I think making, for example, a Yaris RWD whilst making the engine reasonably maintainable and meeting modern impact regulations would probably add a good foot to its overall length.

the other (perhaps better?) option would be to put the engine in the back, but that would make a mess of luggage space and tends to cause NVH problems. A significant number of electric cars go down this route, since motors are smaller, quieter and more efficient than internal combustion engines.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 14th December 10:53

[Kawasicki]

rhoran00 said:

I'd be interested to see the dimensions of a gt86/brz compared to an e30. I think the e30 Will actually be smaller, but there's certainly not much room for 4 in a gt86!

Thank crash safety combined with a coupe design for that.