RAW - is there an order to adjust them or will any old way ?
Discussion
I'm using a D5100 and shoot in RAW and want to start getting a little more serious about how I use it, rather than just snaps. I've noticed that the RAW images tend to be a little soft rather than hard crisp edges, which I understand is a feature of RAW ( well from reading articles on them anyway), so sharpening will usually be part of my workflow.
I'm wondering if there is a particular order to adjust RAW using Paintshop Pro X6 or is there something you must do last, for example?
At the moment my workflow is take the shot, import into computer using Nikon software that came with camera, dump the obviously poor shots, load PSP and add the folder using manage, then fiddle about with the RAW file in a random fashion to see what happens. The fiddling about includes ( but not necessarily all of these) fill light, shadow, clarity, maybe adding a layer and using the multiply function for more dramatic sky, saturation, and sharpen. There's loads to play with i have not even begun to touch yet! I eventually save them as a high quality JPEG.
I really am learning this on the hoof and hope some of you experts could advise on a more structured way of adjusting RAW files?
I'm wondering if there is a particular order to adjust RAW using Paintshop Pro X6 or is there something you must do last, for example?
At the moment my workflow is take the shot, import into computer using Nikon software that came with camera, dump the obviously poor shots, load PSP and add the folder using manage, then fiddle about with the RAW file in a random fashion to see what happens. The fiddling about includes ( but not necessarily all of these) fill light, shadow, clarity, maybe adding a layer and using the multiply function for more dramatic sky, saturation, and sharpen. There's loads to play with i have not even begun to touch yet! I eventually save them as a high quality JPEG.
I really am learning this on the hoof and hope some of you experts could advise on a more structured way of adjusting RAW files?
Use a tool that works with RAW data throughout.
If you're continuously working with source data, it's read only, so you can only manipulate it non-destructively. As one example, sharpening throws away data but it's doing this fresh from source whenever you change anything. So, it doesn't matter what order you do things. Lightroom is an example of this type of process.
Once you let the data off the leash and move away from the ties to that RAW file, e.g. by opening it in Photoshop (and not using adjustment layers), the same data starts to be destroyed, and it's a one way ticket.
So, do everything you can in a RAW-linked app, and then be careful about what data you're losing when you do anything after that.
If you're continuously working with source data, it's read only, so you can only manipulate it non-destructively. As one example, sharpening throws away data but it's doing this fresh from source whenever you change anything. So, it doesn't matter what order you do things. Lightroom is an example of this type of process.
Once you let the data off the leash and move away from the ties to that RAW file, e.g. by opening it in Photoshop (and not using adjustment layers), the same data starts to be destroyed, and it's a one way ticket.
So, do everything you can in a RAW-linked app, and then be careful about what data you're losing when you do anything after that.
Indeed, you can import 16bit data into photoshop, no reason to lose quality until you're ready to save to JPG for the web, etc.
The softness from raw files is basically because jpgs from the camera have been sharpened
With raw files you are making decisions that otherwise are automated.
As has been said, 'output sharpening' happens last after resizing.
The softness from raw files is basically because jpgs from the camera have been sharpened
With raw files you are making decisions that otherwise are automated.As has been said, 'output sharpening' happens last after resizing.
trashbat said:
Still lossy. 12 or 14 bit sensor data is better than 16 bit RGB.
It's not really the point though; for instance, PS has a shadows/highlights tool that throws data away each and every time you click OK.
Have a play for yourself with a severely over-exposed or under-exposed image.
14 bits is greater than 16? Ah for shadow/highlite well then don't use it, there's no requirement or need. It's not really the point though; for instance, PS has a shadows/highlights tool that throws data away each and every time you click OK.
Have a play for yourself with a severely over-exposed or under-exposed image.
And at the end of the day photoshop doesn't touch the raw. Lightroom does the same raw converting Photoshop does.
Have a look at Guy Gowan for how to process an image and understand what photoshop and RAW files are doing when you mes about with slide bars.
Changed the way I shoot as I now understand what the camera is doing and it's limitations. I now overexposed everything by at least 1 stop and don't worry about getting the information back later.
Changed the way I shoot as I now understand what the camera is doing and it's limitations. I now overexposed everything by at least 1 stop and don't worry about getting the information back later.
RobDickinson said:
14 bits is greater than 16?
It's more complicated than that, but basically:Multiple pixels of 14 bit single colour -> magic and manglement, based on your manipulation settings -> one pixel of 16 bits per channel.
It's still not the point though; do anything that temporarily puts data out of range, and in PSD (or whatever) you lose that data, whereas in RAW you just go back to the file. Sharpening, shadows, curves, the whole lot.
For much of the time it doesn't matter, but if you care sufficiently to be ordering your workflow, it maybe does.
Edited by trashbat on Sunday 15th December 19:35
TheInternet said:
trashbat said:
Multiple pixels of 14 bit single colour -> magic and manglement, based on your manipulation settings -> one pixel of 16 bits per channel.
Does something of this nature not have to be done in any editor in order for it to be able to further process the image?steveatesh said:
I'm using a D5100 and shoot in RAW and want to start getting a little more serious about how I use it, rather than just snaps. I've noticed that the RAW images tend to be a little soft rather than hard crisp edges, which I understand is a feature of RAW ( well from reading articles on them anyway), so sharpening will usually be part of my workflow.
I'm wondering if there is a particular order to adjust RAW using Paintshop Pro X6 or is there something you must do last, for example?
At the moment my workflow is take the shot, import into computer using Nikon software that came with camera, dump the obviously poor shots, load PSP and add the folder using manage, then fiddle about with the RAW file in a random fashion to see what happens. The fiddling about includes ( but not necessarily all of these) fill light, shadow, clarity, maybe adding a layer and using the multiply function for more dramatic sky, saturation, and sharpen. There's loads to play with i have not even begun to touch yet! I eventually save them as a high quality JPEG.
I really am learning this on the hoof and hope some of you experts could advise on a more structured way of adjusting RAW files?
I can not comment on paint shop pro as I am using PS raw converter but in general I will:I'm wondering if there is a particular order to adjust RAW using Paintshop Pro X6 or is there something you must do last, for example?
At the moment my workflow is take the shot, import into computer using Nikon software that came with camera, dump the obviously poor shots, load PSP and add the folder using manage, then fiddle about with the RAW file in a random fashion to see what happens. The fiddling about includes ( but not necessarily all of these) fill light, shadow, clarity, maybe adding a layer and using the multiply function for more dramatic sky, saturation, and sharpen. There's loads to play with i have not even begun to touch yet! I eventually save them as a high quality JPEG.
I really am learning this on the hoof and hope some of you experts could advise on a more structured way of adjusting RAW files?
1. choose which photos I'll use.
2. I have a general taste for a bit more sharpness on my images, and on my camera the stock images are a bit soft due to anti aliasing filter, so I'll add a predetermined amount of sharpening to all images
3. White balance, for a group of images shot at the same time or for each... Using the picker tool or doing it manually. A color calibrated monitor helps..
4. Lens corrections! Geometry of the image (rotation or something more complex as lens distortion etc)
5. Lens corrections2 - Most important for me.. Chromatic aberrations, specially important when using wide lens.. on some raw converters this can be done automatically depending on the lens used.. I like to do it manually..
6. Exposure... Can be done using the exposure control. If the image is too contrasty, then use Shadow control... this is most useful if you will go into print with the photo later.. The same goes to highlight control
7. Contrast control, but I like to use Clarity in adobe raw converter, as this tends to pull out some nice edges in the image..
8. Saturation..
9. Adobe Raw has linear graduated filters, which can help you darken the sky, for example, and work a treat..
10. Check all of the above once again..
11. process..
try not to muck about in the post process too much.. nothing worse than an image that is PS'd too much..
Whilst output sharpening should really be the last thing to apply (more or less) and also be set according to the purpose and size of the output ... I still tend to apply some early - just to check what the image is capable of responding to. Now and again an unpromising shot can prove to be remarkably effective. Sometimes vice versa.
Whether you leave that adjustment in place as you continue or take it away and add it back later really depends on two things.
Firstly how much processing power you have available and how well your application can use it. Something like instant response to adjustments makes for a more pleasurable interaction.
Secondly whether you actually have much (or any) control over the way, in particular the order, in which the application applies your efforts.
Some are sequential "stacks" of adjustments and respond to where you place a particular adjustment in the stack (perhaps with a few exceptions.) Others will take your adjustments in any order you make them but apply them in a predefined order internally based on the designer's idea of 'best practise'.
If you get into heavy editing and 'creativity' especially where the final image is a composite or, perhaps, a stitched result from several files such as a panorama, then more ordered steps for the process are likely to be required.
Providing your system responds quickly enough editing activity can be rather enjoyable. However if the system is slow editing is a pita.
Whether you leave that adjustment in place as you continue or take it away and add it back later really depends on two things.
Firstly how much processing power you have available and how well your application can use it. Something like instant response to adjustments makes for a more pleasurable interaction.
Secondly whether you actually have much (or any) control over the way, in particular the order, in which the application applies your efforts.
Some are sequential "stacks" of adjustments and respond to where you place a particular adjustment in the stack (perhaps with a few exceptions.) Others will take your adjustments in any order you make them but apply them in a predefined order internally based on the designer's idea of 'best practise'.
If you get into heavy editing and 'creativity' especially where the final image is a composite or, perhaps, a stitched result from several files such as a panorama, then more ordered steps for the process are likely to be required.
Providing your system responds quickly enough editing activity can be rather enjoyable. However if the system is slow editing is a pita.
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