Cycling safely, within the law, respecting other road users
Discussion
Hey, I'm a long time lurker, mostly day dreaming in the classifieds about the cars of my youth - the Volvo 480, the Scimitar GTE....
I've written a Reader's Column for gizmodo uk about how I try to cycle assertively and respectfully - you can have a read by going to http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/tag/column/ and clicking the first column
I've done my driving test, motorcycle training and even my cycling proficiency over the years, and I still get it wrong sometimes. In the car as well as on the bike. How do you make sure you're riding safely? Welcome your comments on the story or here.
And if this is a bit of a cheeky use of your forum let me know!
Cheers
I've written a Reader's Column for gizmodo uk about how I try to cycle assertively and respectfully - you can have a read by going to http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/tag/column/ and clicking the first column
I've done my driving test, motorcycle training and even my cycling proficiency over the years, and I still get it wrong sometimes. In the car as well as on the bike. How do you make sure you're riding safely? Welcome your comments on the story or here.
And if this is a bit of a cheeky use of your forum let me know!
Cheers
Edited by CHatstoke on Tuesday 17th December 22:05
While I respect the sentiment, I believe there are an incredibly small minority of drivers who are aware of the "from the cycle lane only" rule about advance boxes.
Whereas every single motorist is aware of what red lights mean.
I suspect you holding back from the advanced box when approaching from primary rather than going into it is pissing off more motorists than if you used it.
They will sit there behind you thinking - "why the hell isn't he going into that goddam enormous box right in front of him!!?? I mean look - it's even got a pretty picture of a bike for goodness sake...! It's just like cycle lanes - our road tax pays for them and then they don't use it... should have insurance... he'll jump the light anyway... etc... etc..."
Whereas every single motorist is aware of what red lights mean.
I suspect you holding back from the advanced box when approaching from primary rather than going into it is pissing off more motorists than if you used it.
They will sit there behind you thinking - "why the hell isn't he going into that goddam enormous box right in front of him!!?? I mean look - it's even got a pretty picture of a bike for goodness sake...! It's just like cycle lanes - our road tax pays for them and then they don't use it... should have insurance... he'll jump the light anyway... etc... etc..."
CHatstoke said:
Because the law says you must not cross a solid white line. And when a lot of cyclists break laws (jumping red lights etc) it allows lazy people to say all cyclists are bad.
A bicycle not being lawfully permitted to cross the advanced stop line to enter the bicycle box but still stop behind the forward stop line is a nuance of the law which I'd guess 99.999% of the general population and 99% of police are unaware of. It also does not make sense.
Any opinions of other road users about cyclists are not going to be influenced by this.
OK, so maybe I could sneak forward sometimes.
Hopefully the law and road design can be adjusted to match what we need sometime soon.
I have been surprised by how little trouble I've had using the primary position in the rush hour. It hasn't provoked anyone to shout or honk their horn yet anyway!
Hopefully the law and road design can be adjusted to match what we need sometime soon.
I have been surprised by how little trouble I've had using the primary position in the rush hour. It hasn't provoked anyone to shout or honk their horn yet anyway!
CHatstoke said:
Because the law says you must not cross a solid white line. And when a lot of cyclists break laws (jumping red lights etc) it allows lazy people to say all cyclists are bad.
That is indeed lazy. You wouldn't say all car drivers are bad because someone driving a car broke the law. You wouldn't say all pilots are bad because one turned up to work drunk. Why should cyclists be treated as a homogenous unit. I might have very little in common with some other person who just happens to be riding a bike.
Only time I use the advanced box is if there are no vehicles in front of me as I approach it. I never filter past stopped vehicles to get to it as I feel it is
1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
Magic919 said:
Are you American?
No, I'm English.creampuff said:
A bicycle not being lawfully permitted to cross the advanced stop line to enter the bicycle box but still stop behind the forward stop line is a nuance of the law which I'd guess 99.999% of the general population and 99% of police are unaware of.
creampuff, I can't believe that 99% of the police do not know the law!47p2 said:
Only time I use the advanced box is if there are no vehicles in front of me as I approach it. I never filter past stopped vehicles to get to it as I feel it is
1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
I'm guessing you don't ride in London...1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
CHatstoke said:
creampuff, I can't believe that 99% of the police do not know the law!
Seriously? Have you met many?As most (or at least a lot) of cyclists are unaware of the rules on advance stop boxes then I'd be genuinely shocked if ANY other group had a clue...
Ps if you want to look into the impossible to follow laws, try buying a bs marked light that's worth having, or try buying clipless pedals with reflectors....
TheLemming said:
Seriously? Have you met many?
As most (or at least a lot) of cyclists are unaware of the rules on advance stop boxes then I'd be genuinely shocked if ANY other group had a clue...
Ps if you want to look into the impossible to follow laws, try buying a bs marked light that's worth having, or try buying clipless pedals with reflectors....
Well I guess I've know maybe three people in the police, and I haven't talked cycling with them. But at the risk of sounding naïve, how do the police uphold the law if they do not know what it is?As most (or at least a lot) of cyclists are unaware of the rules on advance stop boxes then I'd be genuinely shocked if ANY other group had a clue...
Ps if you want to look into the impossible to follow laws, try buying a bs marked light that's worth having, or try buying clipless pedals with reflectors....
I do have a BS Cateye rear light with a reflector built in although I'll admit I normally use a brighter one. And I put some reflective tape on the clipless pedals on my other bike - the commuter bike I talk about in the gizmodo piece mentioned in my first post has nice flats with orange reflectors.
By the way, I understand that these are the rules around Advanced Stop Lines:
Traffic Signs Regs and General Directions 2002 said:
Meaning of stop line and references to light signals
43.(2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed in conjunction with light signals, “stop line” in relation to those light signals means—
(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that line; or
(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane.
Pretty tricksy stuff!
Traffic Signs Regs and General Directions 2002 said:
Meaning of stop line and references to light signals
43.(2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed in conjunction with light signals, “stop line” in relation to those light signals means—
(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that line; or
(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane.
Pretty tricksy stuff!
How does this work then:
http://goo.gl/maps/q9qr5
No cycle lane at all, does that mean that I can only stop in the cycle box if the lights change the exact moment that I'm between the two white lines?
I turn right there (2 lane one-way system), so not entering the cycle box means that I would be waiting in the middle of the two lanes between all the stationary traffic, trying to cross the path of all the traffic that wants to go straight on. Entering the box means I can safely cross to the right hand side of the road and just nip round the corner when the lights change, by far the safest route.
http://goo.gl/maps/q9qr5
No cycle lane at all, does that mean that I can only stop in the cycle box if the lights change the exact moment that I'm between the two white lines?
I turn right there (2 lane one-way system), so not entering the cycle box means that I would be waiting in the middle of the two lanes between all the stationary traffic, trying to cross the path of all the traffic that wants to go straight on. Entering the box means I can safely cross to the right hand side of the road and just nip round the corner when the lights change, by far the safest route.
walm said:
I suspect you holding back from the advanced box when approaching from primary rather than going into it is pissing off more motorists than if you used it.
They will sit there behind you thinking - "why the hell isn't he going into that goddam enormous box right in front of him!!?? I mean look - it's even got a pretty picture of a bike for goodness sake...! It's just like cycle lanes - our road tax pays for them and then they don't use it... should have insurance... he'll jump the light anyway... etc... etc..."
This, every day of the week. What I think the OP is suggesting is dangerous and it just creates another reason for motorists to hate cyclists. There's already enough anger directed at cyclists for not using dangerous poorly designed cycle lanes without creating another issue, which quite frankly is a complete non-issue to begin with.They will sit there behind you thinking - "why the hell isn't he going into that goddam enormous box right in front of him!!?? I mean look - it's even got a pretty picture of a bike for goodness sake...! It's just like cycle lanes - our road tax pays for them and then they don't use it... should have insurance... he'll jump the light anyway... etc... etc..."
OP - there's a police Traffic Officer on here (Traffic Rat I think) who's admitted he's never ticketed a car for entering an ASL box, do you really think the police are going to start ticketing cyclists for entering them in the incorrect manner? Have you researched how many tickets have been issued in the UK to cyclists for entering an ASL box in the incorrect manner, I'd be totally shocked if I couldn't count them on my fingers.
Getting cyclists to use primary and secondary positions is great, but encouraging them to annoy motorists for no valid reason just makes no sense to me.
47p2 said:
Only time I use the advanced box is if there are no vehicles in front of me as I approach it. I never filter past stopped vehicles to get to it as I feel it is
1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
The last time motorists would've been quicker than cyclists in the London rush hour, your car would've been cutting edge technology!! 1. a dangerous manoeuvre,
2. it annoys drivers,
3. the already annoyed drivers then have to pass me again
Easier just cycling up to the back of the line of traffic and joining it as if you were driving a car, that way you are seen at all times and give motorists no reason cut you up on a dangerous overtake or bad mouth you.
If I didn't filter past stopped vehicles, I reckon it would double my commuting time, and put it up over 2 hours each way.
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