Afghanistan mission accomplished
Discussion
"UK troops can come home from Afghanistan knowing it was mission accomplished, David Cameron has said as he visited the country."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25398608
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25398608
IanMorewood said:
Depends on what the mission brief was, if it was to cause regime change that's certainly happened.
"We are in Afghanistan for one overriding reason – to protect our national security by helping the Afghans take control of their own. We are helping Afghanistan develop the ability to maintain its own security and prevent the return of international terrorists, such as al Qaeda.To achieve this, Afghanistan is supported by a range of international partners to develop its security, governance, infrastructure, economy and ability to provide essential services."
I think there was also:
"In December 2001, a number of prominent Afghans met in Bonn, Germany, under United Nations (UN) auspices to develop a plan to reestablish the State of Afghanistan, including provisions for a new constitution and national elections. As part of that agreement, the United Kingdom (UK) was designated the lead country in addressing counter-narcotics issues in Afghanistan."
Don't think we are quite there yet on that one.
"Afghan opium cultivation has reached a record level, with more than 200,000 hectares planted with the poppy for the first time, the United Nations says.
The UNODC report said the harvest was 36% up on last year, and if fully realised would outstrip global demand.
Most of the rise was in Helmand province, where British troops are preparing to withdraw."
"In December 2001, a number of prominent Afghans met in Bonn, Germany, under United Nations (UN) auspices to develop a plan to reestablish the State of Afghanistan, including provisions for a new constitution and national elections. As part of that agreement, the United Kingdom (UK) was designated the lead country in addressing counter-narcotics issues in Afghanistan."
Don't think we are quite there yet on that one.
"Afghan opium cultivation has reached a record level, with more than 200,000 hectares planted with the poppy for the first time, the United Nations says.
The UNODC report said the harvest was 36% up on last year, and if fully realised would outstrip global demand.
Most of the rise was in Helmand province, where British troops are preparing to withdraw."
It's a lie that the 'troops are coming home'. Okay the majority of them might be but there are still going to be thousands (some estimates say 15k) of NATO troops remaining in Afghanistan post 2014. Most of these are categorised as training forces and special forces. And of course the drones are not going anyway either.
This 'war' will run on for decades.
http://www.thejournal.ie/us-to-keep-troops-in-afgh...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
This 'war' will run on for decades.
http://www.thejournal.ie/us-to-keep-troops-in-afgh...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10634173
Details and pictures of all of the UK forces Afghanistan dead. Hardly seems worth it.
Details and pictures of all of the UK forces Afghanistan dead. Hardly seems worth it.
Victor McDade said:
It's a lie that the 'troops are coming home'. Okay the majority of them might be but there are still going to be thousands (some estimates say 15k) of NATO troops remaining in Afghanistan post 2014. Most of these are categorised as training forces and special forces. And of course the drones are not going anyway either.
This 'war' will run on for decades.
http://www.thejournal.ie/us-to-keep-troops-in-afgh...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
Your time scale is a little out, I have a relative who fought there 1839 - 1842. He's dead now.This 'war' will run on for decades.
http://www.thejournal.ie/us-to-keep-troops-in-afgh...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afg...
Pesty said:
Taliban will be in complete control in a year or so. Better armed, better trained and funded by the west.
Yep worked out well.
Yeah we could have saved a huge loss of life and money at a stroke simply by dragging Blair out his rat hole and doing a Gaddaffi on him when he started this.Yep worked out well.
Turbodiesel1690 said:
Lets never let another British serviceman or woman die for a people who appreciate f
k all
Our soldiers didn't go there to "help" the Afghans. They went there to shoot and bomb the crap out of Al Qaeda and their allies. Given how many ordinary Afghans were caught in the crossfire it's not surprising that there's a singular lack of appreciation being shown.k allI understood much more clearly the need to go to Afghanistan to dismantle the Taliban's ability to support AQ there. Very much doubt if the new regime has any real credibility there. The Taliban will be back in control in next to no time. Success for me is measured by whether AQ re establish themselves.
Turbodiesel1690 said:
Glad operations are winding down in that absolute hell hole. Lets never let another British serviceman or woman die for a people who appreciate fk all
Why the fk allk should the average Afghan appreciate you, me or any other Brit, American or any other nato member. It's pathetic you actually do. Take 90 minutes some time and watch this film by Ben Anderson.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/vice-news/this-is-what-w...
Some highlights;
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/vice-news/this-is-what-w...
Some highlights;
Ben Anderson said:
I’d seen policemen so high on heroin they couldn’t stand up straight or tie sandbags, and soldiers firing hundreds of rockets, bullets, and grenades at the smallest of suspicious movements in the desert—“fk them, they are all Taliban here,” one blurted out when he was told to stop shooting at a father and son—and on at least six different occasions, the use of child soldiers...
The Afghan Police was still active, too, kidnapping civilians for ransom or as bargaining chips in prisoner exchanges. Weapons, fuel, and equipment NATO had supplied to the Afghan National Army were being sold at the local bazaar...
Worst of all, police commanders were routinely abducting young men and using them as “chai boys,” house servants who were also kept as sex slaves. In separate incidents, three of those boys had been shot dead while trying to escape. One was shot in the face and one was shot at police headquarters. When a fourth boy was shot, Steuber marched into the police chief’s office and demanded action...
The police chief first said that the boys had chosen to live on the patrol bases: “They like being there and giving their asses at night.” He also claimed that the practice of soldiers sexually abusing them was necessary. “If my commanders don’t fk these boys, who will they fk? Their own grandmothers?”
“Yes, the Taliban are here, but who are the Taliban? They are Afghans,” he continued, waving his hand at the marines. “Who are they? We two have to come together! Because my orphans will be left to you, yours to me. They,” he waved at the marines again, “will be leaving. God will cause them such problems that they will forget about here.” Instead of imparting the mullah’s words to the soldiers, the translator balked, saying instead, “We used to live in the Green Zone but it was dangerous, so now we live here and it’s very good. The children can play...”
"If you don’t get upset, I will tell you something,” said the mullah. “Whatever you have brought into Afghanistan, your people are here for killing. Your tanks are here for killing. Your cannons are here for killing. Your planes are here for killing. You haven’t brought anything that we like. All you have brought are the things for death...”
"The Taliban will be here half an hour after you leave,” said the mullah, smiling. “They don’t kill us. With them, we don’t worry about going outside. They don’t touch us. We don’t touch them...”
“Thousands of people have died in this area. As you can see, it’s empty. All you have done is build one and a half kilometers of road in the bazaar, but against that, more than 5,000 people have lost their lives. Men, women, and children. Now you can compare these two things against each other, which one of these do you say is better?”
The marines patrolled the surrounding area daily, but the Taliban were all but invisible. “This is some Vietnam st,” said one Marine. “Most of the time it’s like we’re getting shot at by bushes...”
“I lost 20 people, and I was given 2 million afghanis [about $36,000],” said one man. “It was before 12:30 at night, when your forces came to our area. They were involved in a fight, but the Taliban retreated. Later, a jet came and dropped bombs on our house. Two rooms were destroyed. In one of the rooms, my two nephews and my son were there. My son survived. I rescued him from the debris. Six of my uncle’s family were in the other room. All became martyrs. They were buried under the soil. I moved the children away and came back to rescue those under the debris. While we were trying to do that, the children were so frightened they started running away. The plane shot them one by one..."
“All we want is security, whether you bring it or the Taliban. We are not supporting war. We support peace and security. If you bring peace and security, you are my king. If they bring security, they are our kings.”
k them, they are all Taliban here,” one blurted out when he was told to stop shooting at a father and son—and on at least six different occasions, the use of child soldiers...The Afghan Police was still active, too, kidnapping civilians for ransom or as bargaining chips in prisoner exchanges. Weapons, fuel, and equipment NATO had supplied to the Afghan National Army were being sold at the local bazaar...
Worst of all, police commanders were routinely abducting young men and using them as “chai boys,” house servants who were also kept as sex slaves. In separate incidents, three of those boys had been shot dead while trying to escape. One was shot in the face and one was shot at police headquarters. When a fourth boy was shot, Steuber marched into the police chief’s office and demanded action...
The police chief first said that the boys had chosen to live on the patrol bases: “They like being there and giving their asses at night.” He also claimed that the practice of soldiers sexually abusing them was necessary. “If my commanders don’t f
k these boys, who will they fk? Their own grandmothers?”“Yes, the Taliban are here, but who are the Taliban? They are Afghans,” he continued, waving his hand at the marines. “Who are they? We two have to come together! Because my orphans will be left to you, yours to me. They,” he waved at the marines again, “will be leaving. God will cause them such problems that they will forget about here.” Instead of imparting the mullah’s words to the soldiers, the translator balked, saying instead, “We used to live in the Green Zone but it was dangerous, so now we live here and it’s very good. The children can play...”
"If you don’t get upset, I will tell you something,” said the mullah. “Whatever you have brought into Afghanistan, your people are here for killing. Your tanks are here for killing. Your cannons are here for killing. Your planes are here for killing. You haven’t brought anything that we like. All you have brought are the things for death...”
"The Taliban will be here half an hour after you leave,” said the mullah, smiling. “They don’t kill us. With them, we don’t worry about going outside. They don’t touch us. We don’t touch them...”
“Thousands of people have died in this area. As you can see, it’s empty. All you have done is build one and a half kilometers of road in the bazaar, but against that, more than 5,000 people have lost their lives. Men, women, and children. Now you can compare these two things against each other, which one of these do you say is better?”
The marines patrolled the surrounding area daily, but the Taliban were all but invisible. “This is some Vietnam s
t,” said one Marine. “Most of the time it’s like we’re getting shot at by bushes...”“I lost 20 people, and I was given 2 million afghanis [about $36,000],” said one man. “It was before 12:30 at night, when your forces came to our area. They were involved in a fight, but the Taliban retreated. Later, a jet came and dropped bombs on our house. Two rooms were destroyed. In one of the rooms, my two nephews and my son were there. My son survived. I rescued him from the debris. Six of my uncle’s family were in the other room. All became martyrs. They were buried under the soil. I moved the children away and came back to rescue those under the debris. While we were trying to do that, the children were so frightened they started running away. The plane shot them one by one..."
“All we want is security, whether you bring it or the Taliban. We are not supporting war. We support peace and security. If you bring peace and security, you are my king. If they bring security, they are our kings.”
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