Lease New v. Barge - Man Maths

[Bash Brannigan]

Started my own company a while ago and finally getting the turnover up enough to justify a half decent car in the new year at some point. I've been using an old Golf for trips up until now, but it's reached 100,000 miles and sounds like a bag of spanners which isn't the most relaxing thing when driving long distances. I also have an old MX5 which is worth peanuts so I'll keep it forever.

I drive around 20-30,000 miles per year, often have to carry another person or two with luggage. My last company car was an '08 320d se which I loved as it was comfy enough on long distances and wasn't flash enough to piss people off - a valid concern as I'm 29 and I work with companies making big financial decisions so seeming to make too much money would put their backs up.

Head says lease a new 320d touring for a £500 a month on a mega miles contract (tax deductible, BIK is low) then buy a toy in a year's time...heart says get something more interesting for £10,000-15,000 and play with it. Third option is wait a year and lease a 330d m sport, which is looking v tempting as I have to drive to remote places with great roads at least once a week for work.

All suggestions welcome!

[fastgerman]

£10k on an E39 M5 or only £250 ish a month for 4 years via a bank loan?

Double that for a C63 AMG (saloon or estate to look less flash)

Porsche Cayenne Diesel/S on the 2nd Gen original shape around 2008/2009 ish for similar to the Merc.

Potentially all your money back on the M5 in 3 years time, 60% back on the C63 and on the Cayenne.

Or...

Get a BMW xxxx for £500 a month and get nothing back after 4 years on finance, except a balloon payment if you want to keep it, oh and you'll probably lose your deposit.

[Shaoxter]

20-30k miles a year in a C63 AMG? Are you sure?

Have you worked out how much do you actually save per month from tax deductions less BIK?

[Krikkit]

I think at those mileages a 3 or so year old 330d would be a sensible choice. Decent performance under a run-of-the-mill cloak.

[chrisx666]

30k in an M5/C63 = approx £9300 in fuel. 30k in a 320d = approx £4300 in fuel. £5000/12 = £416/month in fuel alone. The tax is included in a lease so another £20/month = £436. Plus any MOT/repairs that are bound to come up on a 15-year old car - >£64/month? = >£500. The 320 ends up being 'free'.

Not saying that running big engined/old stuff is wrong - I have done it myself (though not for 30k PA) and it can be fun for an enthusiast, but there is a reason why leasing new is popular.

[carinaman]

Would your licence be less at risk if you just went for the most comfortable, pleasing and safe mile muncher with due regard to running and tax costs?

I'm just wondering if points or a ban would seriously set back your own company at this stage. I sometimes get bored on long drives and find the speed creeping up, but part of that could be due to limits being lowered from when I'd driven along them years ago. I could be judging you by my standards when it comes to restraint and making progress on long journeys.

Perhaps having a soothing mobile office extension on wheels would keep your business head and piston head separate and having a separate 'fun car' would help demarcate the two roles, the two cars and avoid compromising either car?

[fastgerman]

chrisx666 said:

30k in an M5/C63 = approx £9300 in fuel. 30k in a 320d = approx £4300 in fuel. £5000/12 = £416/month in fuel alone. The tax is included in a lease so another £20/month = £436. Plus any MOT/repairs that are bound to come up on a 15-year old car - >£64/month? = >£500. The 320 ends up being 'free'.

Not saying that running big engined/old stuff is wrong - I have done it myself (though not for 30k PA) and it can be fun for an enthusiast, but there is a reason why leasing new is popular.

Very good point although I was thinking 20k per year and you're thinking 30k.

What about a 2009 Cayenne diesel under warranty that only needs servicing every 2 years?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...

£25k from an OPC and worth £16k I rekon in 5 years time + 40 mpg

1) E39 M5 - costs £10k or £250pm on a bank loan + £280 road tax, £50 mot, £600 servicing, 4k on fuel (20k miles if averaging 400 miles per £80 fuel). After 4 years you get your money back on the car or maybe less 20% at that mileage. Over 4 years that is approx £20k?

2) 2013 320d - costs £30k or £500pm + a deposit (I assume). Lets say MPG is twice as good so 8k over 4 years on fuel + £24k on the car (which you won't get back if on finance) = £32k over 4 years

Edited by fastgerman on Thursday 19th December 16:19

[Bash Brannigan]

carinaman said:

Would your licence be less at risk if you just went for the most comfortable, pleasing and safe mile muncher with due regard to running and tax costs?

I'm just wondering if points or a ban would seriously set back your own company at this stage. I sometimes get bored on long drives and find the speed creeping up, but part of that could be due to limits being lowered from when I'd driven along them years ago. I could be judging you by my standards when it comes to restraint and making progress on long journeys.

Perhaps having a soothing mobile office extension on wheels would keep your business head and piston head separate and having a separate 'fun car' would help demarcate the two roles, the two cars and avoid compromising either car?

Points would be a massive problem as I'm basically a sales rep!

[Bash Brannigan]

fastgerman said:

chrisx666 said:

30k in an M5/C63 = approx £9300 in fuel. 30k in a 320d = approx £4300 in fuel. £5000/12 = £416/month in fuel alone. The tax is included in a lease so another £20/month = £436. Plus any MOT/repairs that are bound to come up on a 15-year old car - >£64/month? = >£500. The 320 ends up being 'free'.

Not saying that running big engined/old stuff is wrong - I have done it myself (though not for 30k PA) and it can be fun for an enthusiast, but there is a reason why leasing new is popular.

Very good point although I was thinking 20k per year and you're thinking 30k.

What about a 2009 Cayenne diesel under warranty that only needs servicing every 2 years?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...

£25k from an OPC and worth £16k I rekon in 5 years time + 40 mpg

1) E39 M5 - costs £10k or £250pm on a bank loan + £280 road tax, £50 mot, £600 servicing, 4k on fuel (20k miles if averaging 400 miles per £80 fuel). After 4 years you get your money back on the car or maybe less 20% at that mileage. Over 4 years that is approx £20k?

2) 2013 320d - costs £30k or £500pm + a deposit (I assume). Lets say MPG is twice as good so 8k over 4 years on fuel + £24k on the car (which you won't get back if on finance) = £32k over 4 years

Edited by fastgerman on Thursday 19th December 16:19

Interestingly E39 M5 is one that I was considering, but finding one in good condition at mid miles without a two tone interior is difficult! I almost bought a dark blue one with black leather a few years ago but the insurance was barmy. Stupid decision as they are now appreciating! http://www.munichlegends.co.uk/component/option,co... is unfortunately under offer.

MPG wise, I think that the E39 gets around 20 and the 320d gets closer to 55-60 - my 08 one averaged 48 over the 3 years of company fuel that I had it so I trust that 55 is a minimum for the new ones with my mix of driving. Makes the prospect of so many miles in a V8 terrifying!

Cayenne isn't really appropriate due to being a Chelsea tractor and the badge. A friend has one and it's a nice place to spend time though, smooth gearbox for the age as well and he's done serious miles with the interior standing up brilliantly.

[Bash Brannigan]

Krikkit said:

I think at those mileages a 3 or so year old 330d would be a sensible choice. Decent performance under a run-of-the-mill cloak.

Very tempting! Only issue is that there aren't many manuals that come up and when they do they're knocking on 20 which is over budget.

[Bash Brannigan]

Shaoxter said:

20-30k miles a year in a C63 AMG? Are you sure?

Have you worked out how much do you actually save per month from tax deductions less BIK?

Well cars aren't tax deductible purchases for businesses in my situation, so any expenditure on a car effectively doubles when I use money that I've paid myself owing to the delights of tax and NI. This is why business leasing, which is effectively long term renting, often makes financial sense. Utterly painful though, I haven't ever had a load or bought anything on finance so the idea of paying for something that's never mine is pretty hard to swallow.

[carinaman]

Someone I knew that set up their own business had an accident in their business vehicle in their first month and the person that did their books admitted after that they were expecting the venture to fail at that point.

But a self made man I know used his company to fund his used far from the usual barges, citing that depreciation was part of it.

I'd try to see the business car as an aide, a soothing refuge that's going to get you to and from customers safely, get the business done. Perhaps it's just me that thinks that they can get away with going just a bit faster and not getting caught. If I had access to an E39 M5 or C63 I think my licence would be more at risk. You being an MX-5 owner I am sure you get the idea of having fun at lower speeds.

[S8QUATTRO]

I'm in a similar situation myself, have a monthly amount to use on a motor. Was leaning towards leasing a new audi a6 as there are some good deals available right now, I've considered using the money to buy a decent used car instead. That way you own it after the few years of paying it off.

Are you fussed about driving a brand new car? Some people are.

I drove a four year old 330d the other day, didn't realise they felt so quick to drive! Just when I was set on the new A6..

[Bash Brannigan]

S8QUATTRO said:

I'm in a similar situation myself, have a monthly amount to use on a motor. Was leaning towards leasing a new audi a6 as there are some good deals available right now, I've considered using the money to buy a decent used car instead. That way you own it after the few years of paying it off.

Are you fussed about driving a brand new car? Some people are.

I drove a four year old 330d the other day, didn't realise they felt so quick to drive! Just when I was set on the new A6..

I had a new A6 for a bit when they first came out, it was a 2.0 TDi that someone else specced up and ordered and I ended up with it when the 3 series went back. It was quiet and comfy on long distances, but at standard motorway speeds in the rain I was genuinely scared with the understeer. Standard seats were shocking too - like benches. And It was MASSIVE which was a pain. Looking back, I hated that car. Audi build much more handsome cars than other manufacturers in my eyes though. An S4 would be tasty...

I'm not bothered about a new car, I can't really understand people who are because it's so transitory.

[S8QUATTRO]

Bash Brannigan said:

S8QUATTRO said:

I'm in a similar situation myself, have a monthly amount to use on a motor. Was leaning towards leasing a new audi a6 as there are some good deals available right now, I've considered using the money to buy a decent used car instead. That way you own it after the few years of paying it off.

Are you fussed about driving a brand new car? Some people are.

I drove a four year old 330d the other day, didn't realise they felt so quick to drive! Just when I was set on the new A6..

I had a new A6 for a bit when they first came out, it was a 2.0 TDi that someone else specced up and ordered and I ended up with it when the 3 series went back. It was quiet and comfy on long distances, but at standard motorway speeds in the rain I was genuinely scared with the understeer. Standard seats were shocking too - like benches. And It was MASSIVE which was a pain. Looking back, I hated that car. Audi build much more handsome cars than other manufacturers in my eyes though. An S4 would be tasty...

I'm not bothered about a new car, I can't really understand people who are because it's so transitory.

Same here, not fussed about a brand new car. If I go used I think it will be. 330d, A6 2.7/3.0d, C class cdi amg kit, 10k gets you a decent one, 12k one with a few less miles etc.

You could get a really nice A8 4.0 tdi, 730d sport, S class cdi for the same money but you couldn't rock up to a meeting in it, everyone would think its £70k worth!

[carinaman]

Bash Brannigan said:

I'm not bothered about a new car, I can't really understand people who are because it's so transitory.

The self made man that had two unusual used barges that I approved of got a new car via the company but even then it was quite an unusual deal and so while being what he wanted the deal and saving was a big part of it.

I was pleasantly surprised when a friend said they'd got a Jag. I was thinking X300 XJR but seems they've a car allowance with their job and a new XF diesel makes their 100 mile per day commute more bearable.

[Bash Brannigan]

S8QUATTRO said:

Bash Brannigan said:

S8QUATTRO said:

I'm in a similar situation myself, have a monthly amount to use on a motor. Was leaning towards leasing a new audi a6 as there are some good deals available right now, I've considered using the money to buy a decent used car instead. That way you own it after the few years of paying it off.

Are you fussed about driving a brand new car? Some people are.

I drove a four year old 330d the other day, didn't realise they felt so quick to drive! Just when I was set on the new A6..

I had a new A6 for a bit when they first came out, it was a 2.0 TDi that someone else specced up and ordered and I ended up with it when the 3 series went back. It was quiet and comfy on long distances, but at standard motorway speeds in the rain I was genuinely scared with the understeer. Standard seats were shocking too - like benches. And It was MASSIVE which was a pain. Looking back, I hated that car. Audi build much more handsome cars than other manufacturers in my eyes though. An S4 would be tasty...

I'm not bothered about a new car, I can't really understand people who are because it's so transitory.

Same here, not fussed about a brand new car. If I go used I think it will be. 330d, A6 2.7/3.0d, C class cdi amg kit, 10k gets you a decent one, 12k one with a few less miles etc.

You could get a really nice A8 4.0 tdi, 730d sport, S class cdi for the same money but you couldn't rock up to a meeting in it, everyone would think its £70k worth!

Phaeton wins on the barge front for me. God they're tempting!