Previous Employer making demands on new employer
Discussion
In a funny situation here where my previous employer is looking to do a small amount of business with my new employer but want an agreement in place that I will not go after any of their customers.
Now as I work in sale, I have read and believe that my previous employers cannot request this as it forms a restriction on my ability to carry out my duties in my new position and also restricts my possible earnings as I am commission based.
Obviously if my new employers said we are doing this deal, please do not go after their customers, I would have no issue with that and totally respect the business decision, but as they have told me it is at my previous employers request.....??
Now I understand that they are trying to protect their business but can they make this request/demand?? They have also bad mouthed me to colleagues within the industry who I know and have ruffled some feathers at a major supplier to both companies.
I am tempted to send them a letter around the below....
Dear HR Person,
I have received some concerning information today from some of our collages within the industry regarding non favourable comments and requests that have been made by ABC Company senior management towards myself to non ABC Company employees and for the second time, false information and lies passed to these people.
I request that this stop immediately.
As you will be fully aware, my contract at ABC Company did not state any kind of stay away period, so I am free to speak to anyone that I want to within any time frame. I request that ABC Company senior management stop advising third parties otherwise.
I also request that they stop speaking to XYZ supplier and saying that I am looking to take business from ABC Company using supplier XYZ and then giving it back to supplier XYZ at a lower rate in my new company. This is total fabrication on the part of ABC Companies senior management and I believe this has been said to upset my new employers and tarnish my credibility and reputation and possibly cause harm to my career at my new employers. This MUST STOP immediately.
As the director of HR at ABC Company, I ask that you make sure my name is not mentioned by any member of ABC Company staff to anyone within the industry, specifically XYZ Supplier, and this must stop immediately.
Following on from the last letter from MD of ABC Company which made empty and false accusation with no proof or evidence and now these comments, if I hear of anything else or any other attempt of an ABC Company employee to harm my career and earning potential, I will have no choice but to take legal action, seek an injunction and damages for the potential loss of earnings.
I do, however, take all of the actions as a compliment considering how successful and the volume of business i brought into ABC Company.
I also request that no one from ABC Company contacts my current employers and discusses me, mentions my name or implies or makes any requests.
I request an official acknowledgement to this letter by reply and trust you will look into this as a matter of urgency and I can consider this matter now closed.
If I could get some thoughts on this.
Now as I work in sale, I have read and believe that my previous employers cannot request this as it forms a restriction on my ability to carry out my duties in my new position and also restricts my possible earnings as I am commission based.
Obviously if my new employers said we are doing this deal, please do not go after their customers, I would have no issue with that and totally respect the business decision, but as they have told me it is at my previous employers request.....??
Now I understand that they are trying to protect their business but can they make this request/demand?? They have also bad mouthed me to colleagues within the industry who I know and have ruffled some feathers at a major supplier to both companies.
I am tempted to send them a letter around the below....
Dear HR Person,
I have received some concerning information today from some of our collages within the industry regarding non favourable comments and requests that have been made by ABC Company senior management towards myself to non ABC Company employees and for the second time, false information and lies passed to these people.
I request that this stop immediately.
As you will be fully aware, my contract at ABC Company did not state any kind of stay away period, so I am free to speak to anyone that I want to within any time frame. I request that ABC Company senior management stop advising third parties otherwise.
I also request that they stop speaking to XYZ supplier and saying that I am looking to take business from ABC Company using supplier XYZ and then giving it back to supplier XYZ at a lower rate in my new company. This is total fabrication on the part of ABC Companies senior management and I believe this has been said to upset my new employers and tarnish my credibility and reputation and possibly cause harm to my career at my new employers. This MUST STOP immediately.
As the director of HR at ABC Company, I ask that you make sure my name is not mentioned by any member of ABC Company staff to anyone within the industry, specifically XYZ Supplier, and this must stop immediately.
Following on from the last letter from MD of ABC Company which made empty and false accusation with no proof or evidence and now these comments, if I hear of anything else or any other attempt of an ABC Company employee to harm my career and earning potential, I will have no choice but to take legal action, seek an injunction and damages for the potential loss of earnings.
I do, however, take all of the actions as a compliment considering how successful and the volume of business i brought into ABC Company.
I also request that no one from ABC Company contacts my current employers and discusses me, mentions my name or implies or makes any requests.
I request an official acknowledgement to this letter by reply and trust you will look into this as a matter of urgency and I can consider this matter now closed.
If I could get some thoughts on this.
Edited by Chris200 on Friday 20th December 18:25
They can request whatever they like. It's a new contract between your previous employer and your new employer, and doesn't have anything to do with your previous employment contract with them. It's up to your new employer to decide if the terms are agreeable or not. Don't get involved unless asked by whoever is in charge of the contract.
davepoth said:
They can request whatever they like. It's a new contract between your previous employer and your new employer, and doesn't have anything to do with your previous employment contract with them. It's up to your new employer to decide if the terms are agreeable or not. Don't get involved unless asked by whoever is in charge of the contract.
I can understand this to a certain extent, but I the fact that they have bad mouthed me to a major supplier to both companies who I have a really good relationship with, and no want my new employers to put a restriction on the business I can do, does this not restrict my ability to do my job and earn a living which I know in law they cannot do.I am sure you will realise that any aggression towards your old employer might be a warning sign to your new employer (who can probably let you go for no reason in the first couple of years' employment) that you are a handful.
I would definitely encourage the new employer to do the best deal for their business, but I would opine that the old company is probably trying to reduce their losses after losing a member of the sales team (you). Further, I would suggest that I might earn more money for the new employer if unencumbered by a special deal/restriction.
I would definitely encourage the new employer to do the best deal for their business, but I would opine that the old company is probably trying to reduce their losses after losing a member of the sales team (you). Further, I would suggest that I might earn more money for the new employer if unencumbered by a special deal/restriction.
Seriously - I'd be tempted to do nothing which causes grief to your new employer and sending emails/letters such as you suggest is likely to backfire.
Just keep your head down, be professional and successful - ignore the comments being made about you. I am sure that the people you work with and the suppliers you mention can taste the 'sour grapes' from your old employer. The best way to win this is to be happy in your new role, letting the old company know they are getting to you will be a win for them.
I repeat head down and be successful. If your employer expects you to leave certain contacts alone explain that this will restrict your potential income and a renegotiation of salary is required to compensate you. I suspect that this 'request' will then disappear.
Just keep your head down, be professional and successful - ignore the comments being made about you. I am sure that the people you work with and the suppliers you mention can taste the 'sour grapes' from your old employer. The best way to win this is to be happy in your new role, letting the old company know they are getting to you will be a win for them.
I repeat head down and be successful. If your employer expects you to leave certain contacts alone explain that this will restrict your potential income and a renegotiation of salary is required to compensate you. I suspect that this 'request' will then disappear.
Whatever about the demand to not go after previous companies customer - which to be frank is unreasonable when you have already left the company (the legal situation could be different mind).
The bad mouthing is something that needs to be addressed I think - the question is how.
If you've been a good employee for the old company - and no issues have arose that merit you been bad mouthed - then that just is not good enough - at all.
Would be raging if it was me
.
And one more thing - they say they don't want you going after their customers - the old company.
Personally - if that condition applies to just you - then whats to stop your colleagues going after those customers. Not really effective in terms of preventing customers been lost to your new company.
If the old company loses business to your new company - it hardly matters if it was you that won the business for your new company - or one of your new colleagues.
Best of luck - hope you get it all sorted to your satisfaction in the end
The bad mouthing is something that needs to be addressed I think - the question is how.
If you've been a good employee for the old company - and no issues have arose that merit you been bad mouthed - then that just is not good enough - at all.
Would be raging if it was me
.And one more thing - they say they don't want you going after their customers - the old company.
Personally - if that condition applies to just you - then whats to stop your colleagues going after those customers. Not really effective in terms of preventing customers been lost to your new company.
If the old company loses business to your new company - it hardly matters if it was you that won the business for your new company - or one of your new colleagues.
Best of luck - hope you get it all sorted to your satisfaction in the end
Edited by Sir Fergie on Thursday 19th December 22:21
elanfan and Turrican II, thanks for the advise. I do agree with what you are BOTH saying and keeping my head down and getting on with things is the plan. I do not want to cause anu upset or issues or give them any reason to consider my position.
I do believe that the supplier will see the sour grapes side of things.
I might try the restriction = loss of earning potentional so higher salery thing, will have to consider and work out what this could be over the next year.
My new manager has asked for my direct input on this potentioanl new deal and what I think about it all. I have said that personally I dont think it is a great plan, but he has my full support and backing if the deal happens and I will respect the decision as it is a business decision.
I have apologiezed if I had caused any issues and he said there was nothing to apologies for and no need to worry on my part and he values me and expects me to be part of the managememnt team in the not too distant future.
From the conversations he has had and the emails, be believes that they are totally paranoid about me taking some of their customers and their business.
Sir Fergie, I totally agree with you as well, it needs to stop and be sorted. It does not do anyone any favours. The worst thing you can do in business is slag off the competition and your employees current or former.
I am raging and annoyed, but just incourages me more.
I do believe that the supplier will see the sour grapes side of things.
I might try the restriction = loss of earning potentional so higher salery thing, will have to consider and work out what this could be over the next year.
My new manager has asked for my direct input on this potentioanl new deal and what I think about it all. I have said that personally I dont think it is a great plan, but he has my full support and backing if the deal happens and I will respect the decision as it is a business decision.
I have apologiezed if I had caused any issues and he said there was nothing to apologies for and no need to worry on my part and he values me and expects me to be part of the managememnt team in the not too distant future.
From the conversations he has had and the emails, be believes that they are totally paranoid about me taking some of their customers and their business.
Sir Fergie, I totally agree with you as well, it needs to stop and be sorted. It does not do anyone any favours. The worst thing you can do in business is slag off the competition and your employees current or former.
I am raging and annoyed, but just incourages me more.
Chris200 said:
I might try the restriction = loss of earning potentional so higher salery thing, will have to consider and work out what this could be
I obviously don't know the dynamic of your new employer, but I would emphasise loyalty and stick to 'restriction = loss of profit for new employer'. Maybe mention the loss of comission income to you quietly as a secondary concern. i wouldn't immediately mention needing a higher salary or more money to compensate you for the restriction, perhaps see if there's any deal done, or any real impact to you before complaining. It doesn't read very well TBH. It reads like a rant rather than a business letter.
I'd speak to your old boss on the phone. Have a frank, professional discussion about the situation and try to find common ground.
If they dig their heels in and be obstinate, write to their HR dept but in a much more simplified format, keeping to the facts only.
I'd speak to your old boss on the phone. Have a frank, professional discussion about the situation and try to find common ground.
If they dig their heels in and be obstinate, write to their HR dept but in a much more simplified format, keeping to the facts only.
This is not a restriction on your ability to work or earn. Your employer is entitled to make a contract with another company, and the contract won't, unless you have missed something out, reduce your earnings. A restraint of trade agreed between an employer and an employee would be scrutinised more closely than an agreement between two trading companies. The reasonableness test is easily satisfied in relation to such an agreement.
PS:
PS:
Chris200 said:
...does this not restrict my ability to do my job and earn a living which I know in law they cannot do.
Your understanding of the law is incorrect. Some restrictions are enforceable, subject to the test of reasonableness, but in any event this is not a restriction forming part of your contract. Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 21st December 17:33
That sort of agreement is indeed common. There are also agreements between companies not to poach each other's employees. These agreements would usually be upheld if challenged. A more rigorous approach will be applied where a restrictive covenant is agreed between employer and employee, but there too reasonable restraints will stand, contrary to widespread "Bloke In Pub QC" advice to the contrary.
Chris, why are you so sure it is okay to go after your old customers? How long have you worked there? What was your contract at your old place?
I would guess that 99% of employment contracts in sales jobs restrict you from pursuing your old clients anyway and rightly so.
You mention that a contract cannot prevent you using your skills etc to further yourself in future - but you are confusing two issues.
Clients are not your "skills", they are the property of your old employer. So they can stop you targeting their clients but they cannot stop you selling to the rest of the industry. Im sure BV will confirm this, but I would go as far as to say that even if your contract didn't stipulate it there is an implied clause in your contract that you cannot target their clients for a reasonable amount of time
I would guess that 99% of employment contracts in sales jobs restrict you from pursuing your old clients anyway and rightly so.
You mention that a contract cannot prevent you using your skills etc to further yourself in future - but you are confusing two issues.
Clients are not your "skills", they are the property of your old employer. So they can stop you targeting their clients but they cannot stop you selling to the rest of the industry. Im sure BV will confirm this, but I would go as far as to say that even if your contract didn't stipulate it there is an implied clause in your contract that you cannot target their clients for a reasonable amount of time
There is no such implied term. Subject to what I say below, a post termination restriction on an employee has to be an express term.
There is an implied term that prevents an employee from using information that is a trade secret or confidential information equivalent thereto after the employment ends, but this term does not extend to the contact details of clients. If an employee retains such details in his or her head, and does not copy them from a list or database, he or she can use them after leaving unless he or she is subject to an express and reasonable restraint on soliciting or dealing with clients.
There is an implied term that prevents an employee from using information that is a trade secret or confidential information equivalent thereto after the employment ends, but this term does not extend to the contact details of clients. If an employee retains such details in his or her head, and does not copy them from a list or database, he or she can use them after leaving unless he or she is subject to an express and reasonable restraint on soliciting or dealing with clients.
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