Discussion
Anyone have experience of this?
Currently in the process of being bought out.
Our part of the business is being sold of to a private equity co.
We are currently part of a much larger organisation.
If the first co. that buys you out then sells you on to another company very quickly, are your terms and conditions still covered?
Currently in the process of being bought out.
Our part of the business is being sold of to a private equity co.
We are currently part of a much larger organisation.
If the first co. that buys you out then sells you on to another company very quickly, are your terms and conditions still covered?
Went through it 3 years ago - our company (Nokia at the time) sold part of it's business off. I was one of our TUPE reps.
For us, it was relatively painless. It was very slow to start for us - because the part being sold off was multi-national, the new company focussed on places like Bangalore first because they were scared that the people there would walk unless their T&Cs were sorted quickly (and they don't have TUPE of course).
Once it started, it went OK. We set up a DL that employees could mail to ask their TUPE / T&C related questions. As reps (there were 4 of us) we met daily to feed those questions into an Excel spreadsheet - some were duplicates, so we would reply to the originator saying it was covered by question <x> in the spreadsheet.
The spreadsheet was sent to our HR - and then onto the buying company - once a week, and would then come back a few days later with some answers. If we were happy with the answer, we closed the question on the spreadsheet.
Since T&Cs are protected, most answers were essentially "yes, you'll still get it" - but because we had to move offices as well, we also had questions related to that.
In my experience - the problem isn't the new employer. It's the employees - some of the questions people wanted to ask were pretty ridiculous, and we had to handle those.
For us, it was relatively painless. It was very slow to start for us - because the part being sold off was multi-national, the new company focussed on places like Bangalore first because they were scared that the people there would walk unless their T&Cs were sorted quickly (and they don't have TUPE of course).
Once it started, it went OK. We set up a DL that employees could mail to ask their TUPE / T&C related questions. As reps (there were 4 of us) we met daily to feed those questions into an Excel spreadsheet - some were duplicates, so we would reply to the originator saying it was covered by question <x> in the spreadsheet.
The spreadsheet was sent to our HR - and then onto the buying company - once a week, and would then come back a few days later with some answers. If we were happy with the answer, we closed the question on the spreadsheet.
Since T&Cs are protected, most answers were essentially "yes, you'll still get it" - but because we had to move offices as well, we also had questions related to that.
In my experience - the problem isn't the new employer. It's the employees - some of the questions people wanted to ask were pretty ridiculous, and we had to handle those.
ArmaghMan said:
You sound like someone who really knows what he's talking about.
Have you any insight as to what would happen if the first buyer resold almost immediately to so done else?
In theory I don't think that should matter - TUPE would apply again. However, we've just been sold again and were told that because it was a share ownership sale, TUPE did not apply. That shouldn't matter because it simply means we have new owners and everything else stays the same. But, they are now "harmonising" our benefits and in my opinion, not in a good way. ACAS have told me harmonisation is fairly common even if TUPE applies.Have you any insight as to what would happen if the first buyer resold almost immediately to so done else?
For our first sale with TUPE we kept pretty much everything. With the second sale 3 years later, we've lost most benefits we had (which I admit were quite generous).
davek_964 said:
ArmaghMan said:
You sound like someone who really knows what he's talking about.
Have you any insight as to what would happen if the first buyer resold almost immediately to so done else?
In theory I don't think that should matter - TUPE would apply again. However, we've just been sold again and were told that because it was a share ownership sale, TUPE did not apply. That shouldn't matter because it simply means we have new owners and everything else stays the same. But, they are now "harmonising" our benefits and in my opinion, not in a good way. ACAS have told me harmonisation is fairly common even if TUPE applies.Have you any insight as to what would happen if the first buyer resold almost immediately to so done else?
For our first sale with TUPE we kept pretty much everything. With the second sale 3 years later, we've lost most benefits we had (which I admit were quite generous).
Not what I wanted to hear, but sort of what I expected.
I'm a bus driver.
Ive been tupe'd and my terms stayed exactly the same
Some drivers have been tupe'd 3 times and thier terms have always stayed the same.
Make sure you have a copy of ALL your t&c's now, and keep it safe.
My understanding is that you can only be 'harmonised' if you agree to it.
Ive been tupe'd and my terms stayed exactly the same
Some drivers have been tupe'd 3 times and thier terms have always stayed the same.
Make sure you have a copy of ALL your t&c's now, and keep it safe.
My understanding is that you can only be 'harmonised' if you agree to it.
TUPE applies when the company that employs you changes, it is not necessary when the company stays the same but the owner of it changes. Not the 'not necessary', if the company owner is what is changing you have continuity of employment anyway which is what TUPE is providing when the employer does change.
If the company does want to change/rationalise T&Cs then you are into a whole process that largely depends on what they are doing and how, a company can change T&Cs for existing employees up to a point. It is a difficult area though because at some point you are into refusal to accept, waiting for them to treat it as grounds for dismissal or taking it as constructive dismissal and going to tribunal, something that is a big step to take.
If the company does want to change/rationalise T&Cs then you are into a whole process that largely depends on what they are doing and how, a company can change T&Cs for existing employees up to a point. It is a difficult area though because at some point you are into refusal to accept, waiting for them to treat it as grounds for dismissal or taking it as constructive dismissal and going to tribunal, something that is a big step to take.
Siscar said:
If the company does want to change/rationalise T&Cs then you are into a whole process that largely depends on what they are doing and how, a company can change T&Cs for existing employees up to a point. It is a difficult area though because at some point you are into refusal to accept, waiting for them to treat it as grounds for dismissal or taking it as constructive dismissal and going to tribunal, something that is a big step to take.
Exactly. I have made it clear to HR that I am not happy with our changes, and even that they are breaking the law (not enough notice period of changes). But, although most people are not happy the vast majority have still signed because they would rather be employed on worse benefits than not employed. Without a common voice, we have no good argument and although I didn't want to, I've signed. I feel - and stated to HR - that I feel forced into signing without proper time for consultation.I always thought TUPE'ing was a clients way of making sure they're not seen to be looking bad when in reality staff get moved and then potted a couple of months later.
However, I appear to have been wrong and working in construction have seen it a few times since 2008 and although not done directly to me personally, those affected always seem to have done ok out of it. I.e. new long-term employment with the same, if not better pay, comparable hours, vans, etc etc.
However, I appear to have been wrong and working in construction have seen it a few times since 2008 and although not done directly to me personally, those affected always seem to have done ok out of it. I.e. new long-term employment with the same, if not better pay, comparable hours, vans, etc etc.
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