Breitling stopped working correctly after a battery swap!!
Discussion
I took my (3 month out of warranty) Avenger Seawolf Chrono in for a new battery to an Authorised Service Centre in Leicester.
Prior to leaving the watch everything worked perfectly.
On collection of my watch I gave it a quick once over in the shop and immediately noticed that whilst the time function was working, the start / stop function of the chronograph was not.
I was still in the shop at the time so questioned this and the shop immediately went on the defensive with... 'Nothing to do with us we don't go anywhere near that part if the watch'... However 2 minutes on the Breitling website show it's not as simple as there is a great video showing the process.
They still have the watch... Any thoughts on how I should progress?
Prior to leaving the watch everything worked perfectly.
On collection of my watch I gave it a quick once over in the shop and immediately noticed that whilst the time function was working, the start / stop function of the chronograph was not.
I was still in the shop at the time so questioned this and the shop immediately went on the defensive with... 'Nothing to do with us we don't go anywhere near that part if the watch'... However 2 minutes on the Breitling website show it's not as simple as there is a great video showing the process.
They still have the watch... Any thoughts on how I should progress?
http://www.breitling.com/en/service/
I'd have also assumed they would do a basic check of the watch functions from a quality perspective before attempting to return the watch?
I'd have also assumed they would do a basic check of the watch functions from a quality perspective before attempting to return the watch?
Reply from Breitling contact-
The 73390 has an ETA 251.233 SuperQuartz (5 coils) movement and magnetic operated read-circuit contacts.
There could occur quite some problems during a battery exchange ;-)
Mostly a coil has beeen damaged with the tweezers, so this would be easy to fix.
As a certified retailer they should be able to find the fault and in my opinion, it is their duty to give the customer a fully working watch back!!
That is the way we handle issues like that, the customer is king.....
The 73390 has an ETA 251.233 SuperQuartz (5 coils) movement and magnetic operated read-circuit contacts.
There could occur quite some problems during a battery exchange ;-)
Mostly a coil has beeen damaged with the tweezers, so this would be easy to fix.
As a certified retailer they should be able to find the fault and in my opinion, it is their duty to give the customer a fully working watch back!!
That is the way we handle issues like that, the customer is king.....
Edited by bry1975 on Wednesday 25th December 19:26
What's an 'Authorised Service Centre' for Breitling??
Do you just mean Goldsmiths or a generic dealer?
Sounds like they've done a quick battery swap and b
ksed it up, probably charged you for a full service?
They are 100% responsible of course but you may need to talk to Brietling UK's customer service.
Do you just mean Goldsmiths or a generic dealer?
Sounds like they've done a quick battery swap and b
ksed it up, probably charged you for a full service?They are 100% responsible of course but you may need to talk to Brietling UK's customer service.
What's an 'Authorised Service Centre' for Breitling??
Do you just mean Goldsmiths or a generic dealer?
Sounds like they've done a quick battery swap and bksed it up, probably charged you for a full service?
They are 100% responsible of course but you may need to talk to Brietling UK's customer service.
Do you just mean Goldsmiths or a generic dealer?
Sounds like they've done a quick battery swap and b
ksed it up, probably charged you for a full service?They are 100% responsible of course but you may need to talk to Brietling UK's customer service.
Quick test for damage is to use the chrono zeroing functions.
With the crown fully out, the top button should move the chrono seconds independently. The bottom button should move the chrono tenths.
With the crown in the centre (date set) position the top button should move the chrono hours and the bottom button the chrono minutes.
If one button fails to work in either position then there's a problem with the button itself or the associated switch on the movement.
If a button works in one crown position but not the other then there's a problem with the circuit, coil, or train for that function. Given that they were working before the battery failed, by far the most likely of those is coil damage during the battery change. This would be visible inside to anyone who knew what they were looking at, and would be entirely the battery changer's fault.
With the crown fully out, the top button should move the chrono seconds independently. The bottom button should move the chrono tenths.
With the crown in the centre (date set) position the top button should move the chrono hours and the bottom button the chrono minutes.
If one button fails to work in either position then there's a problem with the button itself or the associated switch on the movement.
If a button works in one crown position but not the other then there's a problem with the circuit, coil, or train for that function. Given that they were working before the battery failed, by far the most likely of those is coil damage during the battery change. This would be visible inside to anyone who knew what they were looking at, and would be entirely the battery changer's fault.
Thanks for all the input guys. Based on the attitude of the advisors in the shop I'm fairly worried that there won't be a good outcome from this :-(
I think I've potentially been misled through the whole process by the shop in question. As they said they were authorised by Breitling to service in house. They gave me a 2 week timeframe if I let them do it in house and 14 week to go back to Breitling, the price was the same either way. They convinced me to use their in house guy as they said they were authorised to service anyway. Although the Breitling website describes them as 'Authorised Maintenance Centres' in the link above.
All fairly upsetting to be honest :-(
I'll update as i find out more.
I think I've potentially been misled through the whole process by the shop in question. As they said they were authorised by Breitling to service in house. They gave me a 2 week timeframe if I let them do it in house and 14 week to go back to Breitling, the price was the same either way. They convinced me to use their in house guy as they said they were authorised to service anyway. Although the Breitling website describes them as 'Authorised Maintenance Centres' in the link above.
All fairly upsetting to be honest :-(
I'll update as i find out more.
Edited by GSP on Thursday 26th December 22:48
What GC8 says.
If you haven't already (and assuming it's not too late) ask them for a report on <i>exactly</i> what the fault is before agreeing any repair and report it back here to be checked for likelihood.
As an independent I'm sick to death of putting right mistakes made by "high class" high street dealers which are palmed off as "not our fault". Especially seeing as I hear enough comments along the lines of "it has to go back to their experts" from would-be customers.
Anybody can make a mistake. I once damaged the balance in an Omega during a service when a clip in my cleaning machine let go and bent the rim. It would still have worked, and they probably wouldn't have noticed the difference, but to get it "right" meant a £250 (+vat) part on a £75 job. That put me the best part of £225 down.
Since the watch came in as a non-runner, I could just as easily have phoned them to say "the balance is worn" and re-estimated, or returned it with a bad positional error. But the honest, professional, answer to mistakes is to put them right, <i>not</i> to abuse your position to make the customer pay for your fk-up!
If you haven't already (and assuming it's not too late) ask them for a report on <i>exactly</i> what the fault is before agreeing any repair and report it back here to be checked for likelihood.
As an independent I'm sick to death of putting right mistakes made by "high class" high street dealers which are palmed off as "not our fault". Especially seeing as I hear enough comments along the lines of "it has to go back to their experts" from would-be customers.
Anybody can make a mistake. I once damaged the balance in an Omega during a service when a clip in my cleaning machine let go and bent the rim. It would still have worked, and they probably wouldn't have noticed the difference, but to get it "right" meant a £250 (+vat) part on a £75 job. That put me the best part of £225 down.
Since the watch came in as a non-runner, I could just as easily have phoned them to say "the balance is worn" and re-estimated, or returned it with a bad positional error. But the honest, professional, answer to mistakes is to put them right, <i>not</i> to abuse your position to make the customer pay for your f
k-up!Variomatic said:
What GC8 says.
If you haven't already (and assuming it's not too late) ask them for a report on <i>exactly</i> what the fault is before agreeing any repair and report it back here to be checked for likelihood.
I doubt they will begin a repair without trying to make me pay first.If you haven't already (and assuming it's not too late) ask them for a report on <i>exactly</i> what the fault is before agreeing any repair and report it back here to be checked for likelihood.
I'll let them call me and tell me what is wrong... And if it is followed by anything other than we will fix it, then I'll send it off to be independently assessed. :-(
GSP said:
[...] And if it is followed by anything other than we will fix it, then I'll send it off to be independently assessed. :-(
Be a little careful how you approach that. It's not unknown for such places to take the line that "it needed service, as we quoted, that coil daqmage wasn't there and must have been done by you / your independent assessor after you collected it".One way round that is to ask them to return it to Breitling themselves for assessment, and for Breitling to notify you directly with their report. That way the only other people they can try to blame for any damage is the manufacturer
The good news is that, if it is a damaged coil, they're easily available (and surprisingly inexpensive) through normal suppliers. Gits to fit, though, because you have to strip all the trains out to get to them on that movement series!
eta: Just checked my memory against the manual and I was wrong - the 251 series coils are an easy replacement, it's the circuit that needs a full strip
eta: Just checked my memory against the manual and I was wrong - the 251 series coils are an easy replacement, it's the circuit that needs a full strip
Edited by Variomatic on Friday 27th December 15:27
I've been called today by the shop chain customer services to let me know it's gone back to Breitling themselves, I don't know whether that is a good or a bad thing as it potentially means the in house guys didn't want to touch it any further... They didn't mention on the phone that despite his 50years experience his experience of Breitling was limited which is again the complete opposite of what I was originally told :-( as I'd have definitely sent it back to Breitling in the first place if I'd known that!
Probably won't hear anything at all now until after the 6th Jan.
Probably won't hear anything at all now until after the 6th Jan.
The thing is, as far as possible damage during a battery change is concerned, you shouldn't need specific experience of Breitling (or, with a very few exceptions, any other make for that matter). Damaging coils is a very well know risk during a battery change that anybody who opens a watch professionally should be aware of and avoid.
This is an ETA 251 series movement. You can see the cell is held in place by a clamp. To change it you slacken the two screws holding the clamp, swing the clamp out from under the furthest screw, lift it out, then lift out the cell. If you look closely, you'll see that they even put an arrow on the clamp to show you which part to move, and in which direction!
The red coil near the top of the photo drives the 1/10 second counter and is very easy to damage if you slip while undoing the clamp because of clumsiness / poor tools / a slight case of the shakes after 50 years experience!
The bottom green coil is for the seconds counter, and is just as easy to damage but you shouldn't be anywhere near it during a battery change.
In the Maurice Lacroix pictured, the movement is held by a nylon case ring. Failing to make sure that's correctly in place before refitting the back can prevent the pushers from operating at all. I have no idea whether Breitling have used a similar ring, but it's common practice nowadays.
However you look at it, any damage is a case of random accident or general incompetence rather than lack of familiarity with a certain brand!
This is an ETA 251 series movement. You can see the cell is held in place by a clamp. To change it you slacken the two screws holding the clamp, swing the clamp out from under the furthest screw, lift it out, then lift out the cell. If you look closely, you'll see that they even put an arrow on the clamp to show you which part to move, and in which direction!
The red coil near the top of the photo drives the 1/10 second counter and is very easy to damage if you slip while undoing the clamp because of clumsiness / poor tools / a slight case of the shakes after 50 years experience!
The bottom green coil is for the seconds counter, and is just as easy to damage but you shouldn't be anywhere near it during a battery change.
In the Maurice Lacroix pictured, the movement is held by a nylon case ring. Failing to make sure that's correctly in place before refitting the back can prevent the pushers from operating at all. I have no idea whether Breitling have used a similar ring, but it's common practice nowadays.
However you look at it, any damage is a case of random accident or general incompetence rather than lack of familiarity with a certain brand!
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