FAO : IAHA

[gh0st-preop]

Saw your post on another thread.

A BiB from Cumbria? Hello there

You gonna drop in and say hello and introduce yourself to the masses - we dont bite! (often... )

Gh0st

[iaha]

Thanks for the invite.

Hi,

Cumbria Trafpol, based in Kendal.
47 years old, married with two girls 4 and 2.

14 years in the job, 8 on traffic.

My main work motivator is road safety, although I may lose favour with some (maybe not) in that I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance.

They are here to stay in whatever form, and will develop with technology, and I believe their pros and cons should always be debated to prevent complacency of operation.

So more power to constructive criticism! I just hope it gets listened to and acted upon.

I'm generally fairly chilled about enforcement. I'm always happy to discuss aspects of driving which has brought my customer to me. Often they get away with a little real life anecdote to ponder, if appropriate, they get the ticket or summons.

I won't be a regular contributor, and I see I have a few colleagues on the forum, but if you have any questions or queries regarding Cumbrian issues, give me a shout.

Cheers

Ian

[ca092003]

iaha said:

Thanks for the invite. Hi, Cumbria Trafpol, based in Kendal. 47 years old, married with two girls 4 and 2. 14 years in the job, 8 on traffic. My main work motivator is road safety, although I may lose favour with some (maybe not) in that I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance. They are here to stay in whatever form, and will develop with technology, and I believe their pros and cons should always be debated to prevent complacency of operation. So more power to constructive criticism! I just hope it gets listened to and acted upon. I'm generally fairly chilled about enforcement. I'm always happy to discuss aspects of driving which has brought my customer to me. Often they get away with a little real life anecdote to ponder, if appropriate, they get the ticket or summons. I won't be a regular contributor, and I see I have a few colleagues on the forum, but if you have any questions or queries regarding Cumbrian issues, give me a shout. Cheers Ian

Welcome, Ian. A quick question. What allowance (if any) do you make for drivers who are practising roadcraft?

e.g. you stop someone for exceeding the limit (imagine you are in an unmarked car) and you give them the standard chat. They come back with that they could always stop in the distance they ould see to be clear, they were aware of the limit point, etc.. etc.. Basically, someone who has a better appreciation than most of the finer points of progressive driving.

What difference would it make to the way you dealt with them?

[medicineman]

Hello

I think you'll find most PHers in favour of correctly sighted camera's rather than those just placed to blatantly make money.

Welcome on board, please become a regular posters it nice to get opinions from "the other side".

[IOLAIRE]

iaha said:

Thanks for the invite. Hi, Cumbria Trafpol, based in Kendal. 47 years old, married with two girls 4 and 2. 14 years in the job, 8 on traffic. My main work motivator is road safety, although I may lose favour with some (maybe not) in that I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance. They are here to stay in whatever form, and will develop with technology, and I believe their pros and cons should always be debated to prevent complacency of operation. So more power to constructive criticism! I just hope it gets listened to and acted upon. I'm generally fairly chilled about enforcement. I'm always happy to discuss aspects of driving which has brought my customer to me. Often they get away with a little real life anecdote to ponder, if appropriate, they get the ticket or summons. I won't be a regular contributor, and I see I have a few colleagues on the forum, but if you have any questions or queries regarding Cumbrian issues, give me a shout. Cheers Ian

Welcome to PH Ian; one thing I can guarantee you, you'll never get bored on here!!
I think you'll find that opposition to cameras is growing by the day and I don't see that reversing either, I think it could be a question of how far the pendulum swings before it comes back the other way and seriously backfires on the Government.
Despite how you have been trained, I think you'll find that very few motorists take kindly to, or see themselves as "customers".
We most definitely do not chose to do business with you or spend our money in your "shop".
Your job in relation to the public is prosecution, if it was more education than prosecution then being a customer would be acceptable, but I'm afraid the way it is at the moment deems us all to be "accused".
Anyway, hope you enjoy it on here.

[autismuk]

iaha said:

Thanks for the invite. My main work motivator is road safety, although I may lose favour with some (maybe not) in that I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance. They are here to stay in whatever form, and will develop with technology, and I believe their pros and cons should always be debated to prevent complacency of operation.

Err... you've seen some correctly sited speed cameras with reasonable levels of tolerance ?

Wherewherewhere ?

Ah, now "correctly" could mean things I suppose.

It could mean at accident spots, or it could mean sited according to the current rules which are, I believe "you can place a camera within a fifty mile radius of any traffic accident ever, and 70% of your cameras can be placed where you want".

They will develop with technolgoy, and it will be used negatively, to raise money.

There is little point in debating ; Scamera mobs never take notice of anything unless threatened, so they will continue to do what they like.

[iaha]

ca092003 said:

Welcome, Ian. A quick question. What allowance (if any) do you make for drivers who are practising roadcraft? e.g. you stop someone for exceeding the limit (imagine you are in an unmarked car) and you give them the standard chat. They come back with that they could always stop in the distance they ould see to be clear, they were aware of the limit point, etc.. etc.. Basically, someone who has a better appreciation than most of the finer points of progressive driving. What difference would it make to the way you dealt with them?

Motorway example. My personal cut off for speed alone is 95 mph. (90 if the road is moderate to busy) Over that then they get ticket/ summonsed. I don't generally go looking for M/W speeders at night time. I've other fish to fry. If their driving standard causes me concern, ie aggression, tailgating, weather conditions, lack of courtesy, lack of road awareness, then I'll have them it at much lower speeds, above and below the limit.

Urban/ residential driving for me is different, I see the primary purpose of roadcraft is to consider the safety of all road users, and with an increase in presence of vulnerable road users, I believe the limit should be respected certainly to within ACPO guidelines.

People who consider the 'OAP' doctrine of roadcraft and ally that with concentration and courtesy, or adopt 'COAST' will not find themselves in my 'hall of infamy'.

I believe that going beyond the numeric speed cut off I've suggested you start to encroach into speeds significantly above the 85th percentile, which seems to be the arbiter of safety. Above these speeds I don't hear the argument about safe driving, only disputes about the numeric speed.

[iaha]

IOLAIRE said:

Despite how you have been trained, I think you'll find that very few motorists take kindly to, or see themselves as "customers".

Perhaps use of quotations may have helped. I was using the more general sense of the word.

Customer
"The person(s) next in line who receives your output. Whether the customers are internal or external to your organization, they use this output as an input to their work process(es). Almost anyone you interact with is a customer."

[supraman2954]

iaha said:

I don't generally go looking for M/W speeders at night time. I've other fish to fry. If their driving standard causes me concern, ie aggression, tailgating, weather conditions, lack of courtesy, lack of road awareness, then I'll have them it at much lower speeds, above and below the limit.

My eyes are filled with tears of joy
(please don't forget lane hoggers)

Hi Ian.
Have you registered with www.cumbriasafetycameras.org ? Sounds to me like you would be the perfect addition. It's also up your neck of the woods (mind you, the site looks as if it's now on death row)

[WildCat]

iaha said:

Thanks for the invite. Hi, Cumbria Trafpol, based in Kendal. 47 years old, married with two girls 4 and 2. 14 years in the job, 8 on traffic.

Guten Tag, mein lieber Kerl ...... Ich wohne auch in Cumbria... Du hast schon unserer Familie getroffen....

iaha said:

My main work motivator is road safety, although I may lose favour with some (maybe not) in that I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance.

Ings und pink flashing lights ....

Und Shap... und M6... und A6 und A66 und........

Und "If we can see you when we are hiding in the bushes ... you can see us ....." Think saw that quoted in local rag when you all first started .... but you did not say that ... that was ... the twazak in charge .....

Spoilsport!

iaha said:

They are here to stay in whatever form, and will develop with technology, and I believe their pros and cons should always be debated to prevent complacency of operation.

They have more cons than pros ......

They cannot detect drunks, defectives, uninsured....nor do they educate towards good practice. Note that BRAKE are quoted as saying in press article re "drink driving"

"Advert and Education campaigns play just a significant part in driver awareness of drink driving as enforcement!"

Only ... we are not seeing even these as often as we used to ....I spent whole dire evening watching commercial TV the other night (though the Holiday thing was actually amusing in parts .... where on earth do they dredge these people and programmes from? ) - just to see if they were shown .... und they were not.... und I do not see you on the road as often as I used to either....

Do see Steviebabes's vans around though

iaha said:

So more power to constructive criticism! I just hope it gets listened to and acted upon.

Hear! Hear!

iaha said:

I'm generally fairly chilled about enforcement. I'm always happy to discuss aspects of driving which has brought my customer to me. Often they get away with a little real life anecdote to ponder, if appropriate, they get the ticket or summons.

You sound like my cousin - Durham cop - posts to Paulie's channel ... has acid lecture as well which ist "reserved for his best customers"

That ist right way of policing .... Sensible

But Steviebabes und his talivans .... they learn very little .. und it ist not sensible...... especially where he puts them....

Spoilysport! Always at the best bits.... where you can make "progress"....Und where it is safe....

iaha said:

I won't be a regular contributor, and I see I have a few colleagues on the forum, but if you have any questions or queries regarding Cumbrian issues, give me a shout. Cheers Ian

How about some little tips as to how to actually drive on rural roads....und where not to put your talivans

Und I do not mean that immortal line about overtaking either

edit:

Messed up the quote things...



>> Edited by WildCat on Saturday 13th November 12:23

[safespeed]

supraman2954 said:

Hi Ian. Have you registered with www.cumbriasafetycameras.org ? Sounds to me like you would be the perfect addition. It's also up your neck of the woods (mind you, the site looks as if it's now on death row)

Ian has long been a regular contributor. I've crossed swords with him many times there and come away richer for the experience. His username there is "Ian".

[WildCat]

iaha said:

Motorway example. My personal cut off for speed alone is 95 mph. (90 if the road is moderate to busy) Over that then they get ticket/ summonsed. I don't generally go looking for M/W speeders at night time. I've other fish to fry. If their driving standard causes me concern, ie aggression, tailgating, weather conditions, lack of courtesy, lack of road awareness, then I'll have them it at much lower speeds, above and below the limit.

Liebchen

That ist what I like to read .... the sensible approach....

The "old school" approach....which tackles the problem und tries to do something about it.

Talivan at Shap? Only teaches resentment und not how to drive safely.

iaha said:

Urban/ residential driving for me is different, I see the primary purpose of roadcraft is to consider the safety of all road users, and with an increase in presence of vulnerable road users, I believe the limit should be respected certainly to within ACPO guidelines. People who consider the 'OAP' doctrine of roadcraft and ally that with concentration and courtesy, or adopt 'COAST' will not find themselves in my 'hall of infamy'.

That ist good. COAST ... you cannot really afford to drive without it... more than one element missing und .....

COAST - find it helps keep to correct margin und prevents straying above 85th percentile.

Mad Doc and self, our son (new driver) und the rest of this family have no argument mit slow driving in urban areas .... hazards, parked cars, people, shoppers, children, cyclists, traffic lights, junctions, schools, but .... we like our blats on nice fast motorways und A/bahn..... (und track days ...)

[silverback mike]

Hello Ian, Mike from sunny Bristol here.
There are a few of us on here that crop up pretty regularly.

Always a bit of friendly banter going on.

[autismuk]

iaha said:

Motorway example. My personal cut off for speed alone is 95 mph. (90 if the road is moderate to busy) Over that then they get ticket/ summonsed. I don't generally go looking for M/W speeders at night time. I've other fish to fry. If their driving standard causes me concern, ie aggression, tailgating, weather conditions, lack of courtesy, lack of road awareness, then I'll have them it at much lower speeds, above and below the limit. Urban/ residential driving for me is different, I see the primary purpose of roadcraft is to consider the safety of all road users, and with an increase in presence of vulnerable road users, I believe the limit should be respected certainly to within ACPO guidelines. People who consider the 'OAP' doctrine of roadcraft and ally that with concentration and courtesy, or adopt 'COAST' will not find themselves in my 'hall of infamy'. I believe that going beyond the numeric speed cut off I've suggested you start to encroach into speeds significantly above the 85th percentile, which seems to be the arbiter of safety. Above these speeds I don't hear the argument about safe driving, only disputes about the numeric speed.

Well.... good for you. Actually I'd put 95 as a bit high ;-)

Is the OAP doctrine the one where we all have to wear flatcaps and drive at 25 mph, while at the same time as turning to face the person in the back seat ?

[IOLAIRE]

silverback mike said:

Hello Ian, Mike from sunny Bristol here. There are a few of us on here that crop up pretty regularly. Always a bit of friendly banter going on.

Hi Mike,
Did you ever catch those little shits that spat on your motor in the car park?

[turbobloke]

iaha said:

...I'm in favour of correctly sited speed cameras, with reasonable levels of speed tolerance. They are here to stay in whatever form

That was said in various photo-radar parts of Canada, now all forms of automatic speed enforcement have been removed from the roads on the basis that such methods
a)had no road safety benefits
b)were an arbitrary and blunt instrument
c)represented intrusive big government
d)alienated the police from the public such that...
e)recruitment, and witness cooperation, were both badly hit
f)only remained in place and tolerated at all, due to a well-funded spin machine

The same applies here. You never know what the future holds. As to well-sited cameras placed under true road safety guidelines within appropriately set speed limits and evaluated using robust statistical methods - very few folk have argued against these, but they're rarer than rocking horse poo. Most folk who don't just accept what Bliar and Brunstorm say because they don't think further than their nose would rather have more BiB like you, since you can detect dangerous driving at any speed, plus you have judgement and discretion.

Anyway, welcome to SPL!

[silverback mike]

IOLAIRE said:

silverback mike said: Hello Ian, Mike from sunny Bristol here. There are a few of us on here that crop up pretty regularly. Always a bit of friendly banter going on. Hi Mike, Did you ever catch those little shits that spat on your motor in the car park?

Hi,
Not yet....but I will....

[iaha]

Wildcat said:

That ist what I like to read .... the sensible approach.... The "old school" approach....which tackles the problem und tries to do something about it. Talivan at Shap? Only teaches resentment und not how to drive safely.

I know you or one of the pride contributes on the CSCP forum, so you may be aware of my position on safety cameras. I’d firstly like to see the raising of motorway speed limits to 80mph where and when suitable. I think our motorway and vehicles can cope with that, and it’s somewhere closer to the 85th percentile. I’d like to see motorway cameras prosecute at speeds of 90 mph or over, which will bring our 95mph observant drivers out of the ‘remote prosecution’ equation. 95mph numpty drivers will still probably go sailing through, so I’d argue they deserve the ticket. Speeds between 80 and 90 should be down to us to prosecute if associated driving style deserves it.

I’ve written a lot about Ings on CSCP. I believe the village benefits both in a road safety and quality of life sense from the speed limit reduction from 60 to 40. What’s the best method of keeping it to 40ish or below. I’d argue that for villages such as Ings (restricted from NSL for normal village hazards, < 1 mile in length), we should have covert detection to prevent panic braking or braking and accelerating, but some serious, significant signage to indicate the presence of covert detection techniques, and regular clear speed limit reminders on the road.

[iaha]

Wildcat said:

How about some little tips as to how to actually drive on rural roads....und where not to put your talivans

You have it at the end of your claws – COAST!
I tend to use OAP, (With concentration a gimme!)

• Concentration – The application of body and mind to a particular endeavour, to the complete exclusion of anything not related to that endeavour. It’s simple but the loss of concentration is the single most significant factor determining RTC occurrence. The SMIDSY factor, mobile phone use, whether hands free or not, thoughts elsewhere, work etc. – it's essential to concentrate on reading the road.

• Observation with anticipation – What you can see, what you can’t see, what you might reasonably expect to happen. Take a full view when available – scan horizons. You’ll often see the car in the distance albeit hes still a minute away.Use observation links, tractors in fields and farm entrances (people, dogs, quad bikes etc), mud on road (tractor, horses, cattle in road ahead and poor road conditions). Railway line at side of road (road may turn sharp right/ left at railway bridge) Trees and shrubbery (can give good indication of the route ahead) One ‘Sunday’ biker puts his head over your side of the road on a right hander - Why do they do that? (expect another two to six bikers might do the same.) Use road position to obtain best view ahead, but never compromise safety for a better road position.
  The unexpected often becomes the expected by the anticipation of what you have observed.

• Planning – to identify each hazard as it approaches and assess how you intend to safely deal with each hazard.

Country road driving is pure driving in my book. It usually does not require speed limit compliance. It is the type of road where the use of COAST is best exhibited, and safety is directly enhanced by its practice.

silverback mike said:

Hello Ian, Mike from sunny Bristol here. There are a few of us on here that crop up pretty regularly. Always a bit of friendly banter going on.

Thanks for the welcome guys, always a bit of light relief from mad nightshifts.


>> Edited by iaha on Saturday 13th November 14:53

[Observer]

Good to see you on PH Ian. Your expert advice and measured opinions should be and I hope will be welcomed by all.

Relations between public at large and BiB are under some tension, imo, but you and you colleagues keeping dialogue going here and elsewhere can only help to improve matters.

Welcome and well come.