Letting kids out in the middle of the road
Discussion
Question for the BiB.
Urban road, 2 lanes in each direction. Traffic usually queueing for 1/4 mile towards city centre. I am on my bike filtering up the middle of the 2 lanes on my side of the road through the stationary traffic towards a set of traffic lights. Passenger door of car in right hand lane opens and child gets out. Parent is letting them out in the middle of the road because they're near the school and parent doesn't want to have to get into and then out of the left lane to let them get out on the pavement. I manage to stop before I flatten the kid.
Is the car driver committing an offence? If the answer is yes because I had to stop to prevent an accident would they still be committing an offence if I wasn't there?
This happens regularly on my way into work. I am very interested in the legal situation here. Personally I'd like to take the licences off the lot of them!
Urban road, 2 lanes in each direction. Traffic usually queueing for 1/4 mile towards city centre. I am on my bike filtering up the middle of the 2 lanes on my side of the road through the stationary traffic towards a set of traffic lights. Passenger door of car in right hand lane opens and child gets out. Parent is letting them out in the middle of the road because they're near the school and parent doesn't want to have to get into and then out of the left lane to let them get out on the pavement. I manage to stop before I flatten the kid.
Is the car driver committing an offence? If the answer is yes because I had to stop to prevent an accident would they still be committing an offence if I wasn't there?
This happens regularly on my way into work. I am very interested in the legal situation here. Personally I'd like to take the licences off the lot of them!
One of the reasons this upsets me so much is that 3 years ago I was passing one of these cars when the kid opened the door. The door hit me in the arm and I now have permanent nerve damage. What is it that makes these people think that saving 2 minutes time is worth endangering their children and other motorists as well?
I know, I know, there's no thought actually going on at all
I know, I know, there's no thought actually going on at all
MrsMiggins said:
One of the reasons this upsets me so much is that 3 years ago I was passing one of these cars when the kid opened the door. The door hit me in the arm and I now have permanent nerve damage. What is it that makes these people think that saving 2 minutes time is worth endangering their children and other motorists as well?
I know, I know, there's no thought actually going on at all
No, they are thinking, it's just that they are by far the most important people on the road. Nobody else figures in their concerns because they just don't give a s
tThe driver in lane 2 doesn't have all that much visibility into the gap between the lanes, especially if the road is curved or there are trucks or badly placed cars immediately behind.
I was watching bikes filter like this through the M62 morning jams yesterday - they were visible from no more than 3 car lengths behind. I'd say all of the filtering bikers were going too fast to stop within the distance they were visible for.
And surely if someone wanted to move from lane 2 to lane 1 to set down passengers (not on M62!) they'd have to cross the path of a filtering bike anyhow - pretty much the same hazard as opening the door from lane 2?
I was watching bikes filter like this through the M62 morning jams yesterday - they were visible from no more than 3 car lengths behind. I'd say all of the filtering bikers were going too fast to stop within the distance they were visible for.
And surely if someone wanted to move from lane 2 to lane 1 to set down passengers (not on M62!) they'd have to cross the path of a filtering bike anyhow - pretty much the same hazard as opening the door from lane 2?
Rob-C said:
And surely if someone wanted to move from lane 2 to lane 1 to set down passengers (not on M62!) they'd have to cross the path of a filtering bike anyhow - pretty much the same hazard as opening the door from lane 2?
I can understand where you are coming from here Rob, but the vehicle I was passing was stationary when the accident happened. The driver did not check to see if it was clear before she allowed her son to open the door and smack me with it! Plod who attended told her she was guilty of careless driving.
I tend not to filter when the traffic is moving precisely because of the hazard you describe, although anyone who ever filters on a bike will tell you that drivers changing lane without taking adequate observation is always on your mind when you're riding.
You would hope that any car driver would look hard enough to ensure that he/she could change lane without hitting anyone or anything, including a motorcycle.
When I filter, with red bike, silver helmet and headlamps on (as always) it really annoys me when people pull across in front of you with the stock 'I didn't see you' or two finger salute.
They almost think that you simply shouldn't be there, or making progress when they can't.
Most bikers I know filter at sensible speeds.
When I filter, with red bike, silver helmet and headlamps on (as always) it really annoys me when people pull across in front of you with the stock 'I didn't see you' or two finger salute.
They almost think that you simply shouldn't be there, or making progress when they can't.
Most bikers I know filter at sensible speeds.
Biker this morning - lots of blipping throttle whilst stopped at lights intimidating dainty car driver in next door lane - I'm behind him in mpv - lights change, does biker go cos he's all ready ? Not on your life - still too busy glaring at inside lane traffic - takes big toot to wake him up.
Now I'd followed this guy for some time - he's got a flourescent Sam Browne on over black wet-weather gear - shame he nearly covered belt up with matching black rucksack - oh, and earlier, I knew he was ready to overtake me as he must use baffle-less exhaust as horn! Brmmm, brmmm!
That's a kiddy that shouldn't be on a try-cycle, let alone something powered.
Sometimes I "Think Bike, think Idiot"
Piccy
Now I'd followed this guy for some time - he's got a flourescent Sam Browne on over black wet-weather gear - shame he nearly covered belt up with matching black rucksack - oh, and earlier, I knew he was ready to overtake me as he must use baffle-less exhaust as horn! Brmmm, brmmm!
That's a kiddy that shouldn't be on a try-cycle, let alone something powered.
Sometimes I "Think Bike, think Idiot"
Piccy
[quote=Davel]They almost think that you simply shouldn't be there, or making progress when they can't.
[quote]
Or they genuinely couldn't see you in time, because what you thought was a sensible speed didn't account for the difference in visibility between you on your bike and drivers relying on their door mirror?
By filtering, you are choosing to ignore the lane markings that the 4+ wheeled traffic must abide by. There's nothing in itself wrong with that.
***But by doing so you put yourself in a position which is unexpected to other road users***
IMHO the onus is therefore on you to compensate for both their lack of anticipation and restricted visibility.
[quote]
Or they genuinely couldn't see you in time, because what you thought was a sensible speed didn't account for the difference in visibility between you on your bike and drivers relying on their door mirror?
By filtering, you are choosing to ignore the lane markings that the 4+ wheeled traffic must abide by. There's nothing in itself wrong with that.
***But by doing so you put yourself in a position which is unexpected to other road users***
IMHO the onus is therefore on you to compensate for both their lack of anticipation and restricted visibility.
Personally speaking I always expect car drivers to change lane if theres anywhere at all for them to go. Always expect the worst and you won't be disappointed
Having said that, there are always the car drivers who see you coming and move across to deliberately block your path. It's just bldy mindedness. They're stuck in a jam and don't want anyone else to have a clear run. What they fail to consider is that the biker is not taking up the same space on the road as they would in a car, in effect while filtering they take up no space at all. If I didn't filter past cars on the way to work I'd have to leave 10-15 minutes earlier and would end up in the same queue as the people I usually pass. Many of them would end up sitting behind me so filtering actually saves these drivers time as well by reducing the number of vehicles ahead of them in each queue.
Having said that, there are always the car drivers who see you coming and move across to deliberately block your path. It's just bl
dy mindedness. They're stuck in a jam and don't want anyone else to have a clear run. What they fail to consider is that the biker is not taking up the same space on the road as they would in a car, in effect while filtering they take up no space at all. If I didn't filter past cars on the way to work I'd have to leave 10-15 minutes earlier and would end up in the same queue as the people I usually pass. Many of them would end up sitting behind me so filtering actually saves these drivers time as well by reducing the number of vehicles ahead of them in each queue.I personally have no problem with bikes filtering through queueing traffic. (Except for the sh*tty old moped owner who barges to the front of the queue at traffic lights then struggles to make 20MPH, holding up everybody else up.)
What I do have a problem with is the common assumption that the car driver who changes lanes in front of a filtering bike is ALWAYS the one in the wrong.
What I do have a problem with is the common assumption that the car driver who changes lanes in front of a filtering bike is ALWAYS the one in the wrong.
MrsMiggins said:
Personally speaking I always expect car drivers to change lane if theres anywhere at all for them to go. Always expect the worst and you won't be disappointed
Spot on! And its this philosphy that has kept me alive on the bike all this time.
I usually expect the car in front to do a handbrake turn right in the middle of the motorway for no reason...and I am normally not too far dissapointed
My motorcycle examiner when I passed my test left me with these parting words -
"Beware the 10 year old family saloon and the expensive german marques and you will live a long and happy life"
Worked so far
Gh0st
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