sparkplugs for 1986 wedge 350i
Discussion
As Zig says, BPR5ES are the ones to use (I did in my 350) gapped at 0.9mm. However, the NGK catalogue lists the BPR5E as the first choice, and the BPR5ES as an alternative - the B7ECS is specified for the 400 / 450 only, as I guess these will run hotter, although the gap for the 350 is specified as 0.7mm.
TVR 280i 2.8 6 BPR6E 6464 BPR6ES 7822 0.7
280S 2.8 6 BPR5E 7075 BPR5ES 7422 0.7
290i 2.9 6 BPR6E 6464 BPR6ES 7822 0.7
350i 3.5 8 BPR5E 7075 BPR5ES 7422 0.7
400 4.0 8 B7ECS 2528 0.8
450 4.5 8 88Õ90 B7ECS 2528 0.8
TVR 280i 2.8 6 BPR6E 6464 BPR6ES 7822 0.7
280S 2.8 6 BPR5E 7075 BPR5ES 7422 0.7
290i 2.9 6 BPR6E 6464 BPR6ES 7822 0.7
350i 3.5 8 BPR5E 7075 BPR5ES 7422 0.7
400 4.0 8 B7ECS 2528 0.8
450 4.5 8 88Õ90 B7ECS 2528 0.8
The higher the number, the colder the plug is, ie. 5 is hotter plug than 7 and therefore better for less heating engine. Last summer I checked NGK's compatibility list for the plugs mentioned at my 350i's manual and it returned BP6ES. I can imagine 5 being better for the not-so-efficient naturally aspirated engine than 6, but the R really surprises me for a conventional distributor-driven ignition, as AFAIK the resistor type plugs are usually used with direct ignition systems.
http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/images/Initia...
http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/images/Initia...
tunepipe911 said:
Thanks,
second question,
fuel 95 or 98,on the 95 the engine seems to iddle a bit faster?
Hello Rudy. You can use both, but need to adapt the ignition advance about -2 degrees for 95. It is 8 degrees for 98, but needs to be checked if the advance is ok at 4000rpm or so that it achieves the best setting. Think it needs to be max 24 degrees advance from the top of my head for 98.second question,
fuel 95 or 98,on the 95 the engine seems to iddle a bit faster?
Was considered using 95 myself, but only use it in emergencies as it has more ethanol in it and that is not ok for our rubber in the injection system and fuel hoses. Few euros more for ease of mind.
Not noticed a change in idle on 95, without changing the advance.
Rob
Edit: forgot about the topic, don't know of those plugs which are the best, as have some platinum bosch stuff(previous owner, last service before I bought it, upgrade for griffith a specialist told me...) in there that will go on for many more thousands of miles. I check them every two years
They are great but probably have cost a fortune.Edited by 350zwelgje on Sunday 29th December 15:37
On my 4.0HC Chimaera TVR specified B7ECS which was a dreadful choice for a road car, its too cold and the shrouded electrode while strong is completely unnecessary and does not promote good combustion. Many years ago and on the advice of V8 Developments I went one hotter to a BP6ES and never looked back, more recently I've gone one hotter still and now run a 5, these deliver even better self cleaning performance with no detonation or over heating of the plug ground electrode .
All this and I run LPG, a fuel that is fabled for producing hotter combustion temps with the traditional response being to go one plug heat range cooler. What people don't tell you about LPG is while combustion temps are a little higher and the fuel is very low carbon, it also carries oils known as heavy ends. These heavy ends burn in the combustion chamber leaving clay like deposits on the spark plug which in turn can lead to misfires, and in extreme plug fouling situations (not uncommon) the HT leads will become overstressed and fail. The point being the secret to good ignition health is a plug that doesn't foul, and to avoid plug fouling it needs to get hot enough to self clean.
Spark plug self cleaning only starts at 450c, any cooler and the plug will foul, choosing your spark plug heat range is dependent on many things but it basically all boils down to combustion chamber temps, and the biggest influence on combustion temps with a naturally engine is it's compression ratio. The Rover V8 is really a very low compression engine, so it will easily tolerate a hotter No5 NGK plug without any risk of detonation or per-ignition,
Choosing the right heat range is more important than you think, these days the Chimaera community has more or less universally switched from the inappropriately cold No7s TVR specified to hotter N06 plugs, and with good reason, the results are always positive. What you actually want is a plug that gets as hot as possible as fast as possible while not overheating or causing detonation, so I experimented by going from 6s to 5s and the results are excellent, even less fouling and improved service life than the No6s.
I've then taken things one step further by opting for BP5EY with the V-Groove centre electrode, contrary to what some mistakenly assume this V-Goove centre electrode isn't giving you two sparks, as we all know electricity will only elver find the one single easiest path to ground. All the V-Groove does is extend the plug life a little, if one part of the ground electrode becomes fouled the spark will move to a cleaner area a little easier reducing misfires.
Finally what most don't know is misfires are inevitable in all internal combustion engines, even modern ones, this is why modern engine management systems monitor misfire rates and will only throw a fault code when the misfire rate exceeds a certain predefined threshold. Modern engines misfire a lot less than old ones but they still misfire, and the primary reason for misfires are fouled plugs. The old Rover V8 with a Lucas distributor, ignition amp, and traditional single canister coil is actually a shocker for misfires so anything you can do to limit it's very high misfire rate is going to give immediate benefits.
Despite being on an aftermarket engine management system that uses much more powerful coil pack ignition this is why I switched to the hotter BP5EY plugs, and they definitely perform better, foul less and last longer even than the No6s that were themselves a massive improvement over the No7s and with no detonation issues what so ever. I build my own HT leads from parts I buy from Mr Retro Leads, the finished leads having sufficient resistance themselves to avoid EMI issues eliminating the need for resistor plugs, the end result being the very highest KV and fattest possible spark at the plug.
All this and I run LPG, a fuel that is fabled for producing hotter combustion temps with the traditional response being to go one plug heat range cooler. What people don't tell you about LPG is while combustion temps are a little higher and the fuel is very low carbon, it also carries oils known as heavy ends. These heavy ends burn in the combustion chamber leaving clay like deposits on the spark plug which in turn can lead to misfires, and in extreme plug fouling situations (not uncommon) the HT leads will become overstressed and fail. The point being the secret to good ignition health is a plug that doesn't foul, and to avoid plug fouling it needs to get hot enough to self clean.
Spark plug self cleaning only starts at 450c, any cooler and the plug will foul, choosing your spark plug heat range is dependent on many things but it basically all boils down to combustion chamber temps, and the biggest influence on combustion temps with a naturally engine is it's compression ratio. The Rover V8 is really a very low compression engine, so it will easily tolerate a hotter No5 NGK plug without any risk of detonation or per-ignition,
Choosing the right heat range is more important than you think, these days the Chimaera community has more or less universally switched from the inappropriately cold No7s TVR specified to hotter N06 plugs, and with good reason, the results are always positive. What you actually want is a plug that gets as hot as possible as fast as possible while not overheating or causing detonation, so I experimented by going from 6s to 5s and the results are excellent, even less fouling and improved service life than the No6s.
I've then taken things one step further by opting for BP5EY with the V-Groove centre electrode, contrary to what some mistakenly assume this V-Goove centre electrode isn't giving you two sparks, as we all know electricity will only elver find the one single easiest path to ground. All the V-Groove does is extend the plug life a little, if one part of the ground electrode becomes fouled the spark will move to a cleaner area a little easier reducing misfires.
Finally what most don't know is misfires are inevitable in all internal combustion engines, even modern ones, this is why modern engine management systems monitor misfire rates and will only throw a fault code when the misfire rate exceeds a certain predefined threshold. Modern engines misfire a lot less than old ones but they still misfire, and the primary reason for misfires are fouled plugs. The old Rover V8 with a Lucas distributor, ignition amp, and traditional single canister coil is actually a shocker for misfires so anything you can do to limit it's very high misfire rate is going to give immediate benefits.
Despite being on an aftermarket engine management system that uses much more powerful coil pack ignition this is why I switched to the hotter BP5EY plugs, and they definitely perform better, foul less and last longer even than the No6s that were themselves a massive improvement over the No7s and with no detonation issues what so ever. I build my own HT leads from parts I buy from Mr Retro Leads, the finished leads having sufficient resistance themselves to avoid EMI issues eliminating the need for resistor plugs, the end result being the very highest KV and fattest possible spark at the plug.
ChimpOnGas said:
On my 4.0HC Chimaera TVR specified B7ECS which was a dreadful choice for a road car, its too cold and the shrouded electrode while strong is completely unnecessary and does not promote good combustion. Many years ago and on the advice of V8 Developments I went one hotter to a BP6ES and never looked back, more recently I've gone one hotter still and now run a 5, these deliver even better self cleaning performance with no detonation or over heating of the plug ground electrode .
All this and I run LPG, a fuel that is fabled for producing hotter combustion temps with the traditional response being to go one plug heat range cooler. What people don't tell you about LPG is while combustion temps are a little higher and the fuel is very low carbon, it also carries oils known as heavy ends. These heavy ends burn in the combustion chamber leaving clay like deposits on the spark plug which in turn can lead to misfires, and in extreme plug fouling situations (not uncommon) the HT leads will become overstressed and fail. The point being the secret to good ignition health is a plug that doesn't foul, and to avoid plug fouling it needs to get hot enough to self clean.
Spark plug self cleaning only starts at 450c, any cooler and the plug will foul, choosing your spark plug heat range is dependent on many things but it basically all boils down to combustion chamber temps, and the biggest influence on combustion temps with a naturally engine is it's compression ratio. The Rover V8 is really a very low compression engine, so it will easily tolerate a hotter No5 NGK plug without any risk of detonation or per-ignition,
Choosing the right heat range is more important than you think, these days the Chimaera community has more or less universally switched from the inappropriately cold No7s TVR specified to hotter N06 plugs, and with good reason, the results are always positive. What you actually want is a plug that gets as hot as possible as fast as possible while not overheating or causing detonation, so I experimented by going from 6s to 5s and the results are excellent, even less fouling and improved service life than the No6s.
I've then taken things one step further by opting for BP5EY with the V-Groove centre electrode, contrary to what some mistakenly assume this V-Goove centre electrode isn't giving you two sparks, as we all know electricity will only elver find the one single easiest path to ground. All the V-Groove does is extend the plug life a little, if one part of the ground electrode becomes fouled the spark will move to a cleaner area a little easier reducing misfires.
Finally what most don't know is misfires are inevitable in all internal combustion engines, even modern ones, this is why modern engine management systems monitor misfire rates and will only throw a fault code when the misfire rate exceeds a certain predefined threshold. Modern engines misfire a lot less than old ones but they still misfire, and the primary reason for misfires are fouled plugs. The old Rover V8 with a Lucas distributor, ignition amp, and traditional single canister coil is actually a shocker for misfires so anything you can do to limit it's very high misfire rate is going to give immediate benefits.
Despite being on an aftermarket engine management system that uses much more powerful coil pack ignition this is why I switched to the hotter BP5EY plugs, and they definitely perform better, foul less and last longer even than the No6s that were themselves a massive improvement over the No7s and with no detonation issues what so ever. I build my own HT leads from parts I buy from Mr Retro Leads, the finished leads having sufficient resistance themselves to avoid EMI issues eliminating the need for resistor plugs, the end result being the very highest KV and fattest possible spark at the plug.
Is your system running waste spark? All this and I run LPG, a fuel that is fabled for producing hotter combustion temps with the traditional response being to go one plug heat range cooler. What people don't tell you about LPG is while combustion temps are a little higher and the fuel is very low carbon, it also carries oils known as heavy ends. These heavy ends burn in the combustion chamber leaving clay like deposits on the spark plug which in turn can lead to misfires, and in extreme plug fouling situations (not uncommon) the HT leads will become overstressed and fail. The point being the secret to good ignition health is a plug that doesn't foul, and to avoid plug fouling it needs to get hot enough to self clean.
Spark plug self cleaning only starts at 450c, any cooler and the plug will foul, choosing your spark plug heat range is dependent on many things but it basically all boils down to combustion chamber temps, and the biggest influence on combustion temps with a naturally engine is it's compression ratio. The Rover V8 is really a very low compression engine, so it will easily tolerate a hotter No5 NGK plug without any risk of detonation or per-ignition,
Choosing the right heat range is more important than you think, these days the Chimaera community has more or less universally switched from the inappropriately cold No7s TVR specified to hotter N06 plugs, and with good reason, the results are always positive. What you actually want is a plug that gets as hot as possible as fast as possible while not overheating or causing detonation, so I experimented by going from 6s to 5s and the results are excellent, even less fouling and improved service life than the No6s.
I've then taken things one step further by opting for BP5EY with the V-Groove centre electrode, contrary to what some mistakenly assume this V-Goove centre electrode isn't giving you two sparks, as we all know electricity will only elver find the one single easiest path to ground. All the V-Groove does is extend the plug life a little, if one part of the ground electrode becomes fouled the spark will move to a cleaner area a little easier reducing misfires.
Finally what most don't know is misfires are inevitable in all internal combustion engines, even modern ones, this is why modern engine management systems monitor misfire rates and will only throw a fault code when the misfire rate exceeds a certain predefined threshold. Modern engines misfire a lot less than old ones but they still misfire, and the primary reason for misfires are fouled plugs. The old Rover V8 with a Lucas distributor, ignition amp, and traditional single canister coil is actually a shocker for misfires so anything you can do to limit it's very high misfire rate is going to give immediate benefits.
Despite being on an aftermarket engine management system that uses much more powerful coil pack ignition this is why I switched to the hotter BP5EY plugs, and they definitely perform better, foul less and last longer even than the No6s that were themselves a massive improvement over the No7s and with no detonation issues what so ever. I build my own HT leads from parts I buy from Mr Retro Leads, the finished leads having sufficient resistance themselves to avoid EMI issues eliminating the need for resistor plugs, the end result being the very highest KV and fattest possible spark at the plug.
O mage said:
Is your system running waste spark?
Yes wasted spark, so because the direction of spark travel alternates across the electrodes both the center firing electrode and ground electrode will see erosion, this in contrast to a traditional ignition system that will experience more wear at the ground electrode. For this reason where wasted spark ignition is deployed you often see OEMs using double precious metal spark plugs, Iridium or Platinum will be used on both the center-firing electrode and the ground electrode. They only do this to reduce gap erosion allowing a longer service interval since these precious materials are denser, unfortunately they are also less conductive than traditional nickel-alloy used on good old yellow box NGK plugs, if you use traditional yellow box nickel-alloy NGK plugs on vehicles like my TVR Chimaera equipped with wasted spark ignitions the result will be more aggressive gap erosion and shorter spark plug life.
However, how long do you need a plug to last?
It's been my experience the fouling issue on LPG takes place long before gap erosion even comes close to becoming an issue, you also need to balance this now largely irrelevant gap erosion issue with cost. For some time I ran NGK's LPG specific plugs, No2 LPG Laserline are the equivalent of the good old BP6ES but use an iridium center-firing electrode and a chip of pure platinum on the ground electrode.
https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/files/LPG_info.pdf
They apparently also have a special coating to help with the LPG plug fouling issue, this and the double precious metal construction in theory makes these plugs perfect for my LPG Chimaera running wasted spark. All this sounds great until you find out these plugs are £140 a set, worse still I found they still foul at around 6,000 miles so if I was going to keep using them I'd be spending over £140 a year on a set of plugs which is simply ridiculous
So I switched to NGK iridium spark plugs, Iridium IX designed for petrol engines but NGK BKR6EIX plugs still only last 5,000 before fouling and are £65 as set, so I'm still replacing them annually or even sooner. My solution to mitigate the fouling issue while keeping costs realistic was to switch to a hotter No5 plug, I also went with the V-Groove type which helps further in this respect. So as it turns out BP5EY with the V-Groove centre electrode which last 6,000 and are only £19.00 a set are actually the ideal plug for me.
It's likely that even running traditional nickel-alloy used on good old yellow box NGK plugs the accelerated gap erosion seen on wasted spark will not start to become an issue until 30,000 miles of service, so given whatever plug type I choose they all need changing due to the fouling issue at 6,000 miles at best, I may as well use BP5EY at £19.00 a set as all the plug types I've used need changing annually. Changing my spark plugs once a year is just part of my servicing schedule, this also ensures the plug threads in the head are chased out and kept clean, you do not want a seized plug in an ally cylinder head.
For all the above reasons I've now settled on traditional nickel-alloy yellow box NGK BP5EY at £19.00 a set, and simply change them every 6,000 miles/annually
This is definitely the best plug for me and I'd suggest it will also work brilliantly in a petrol only RV8 TVR where the rich mixtures often seen can also promote early fouling
^^^^^^^
Wow you have done well in your pioneering, you have completely changed the beasts heartbeat and must have changed the injection strategy to suit you would not want a cylinder to go pop when it shouldn't not in a 90 degree v and cross plane anyway (in there lays a secret of the ajp) not many people truly understand what takes place is with an analogue system (i call it cause its the same as the capacitor) is the Kv frequency jumps into the block is picked up from the block through the amp/capacitor (the bridge) as a back emf and meets the secondary but in your system the Kv jumps into the block and then back to centre electrode as a negative on the lead that shares the same secondary. so the secondary along with the plugs and leads become the bridge. Which is why you changed your plugs. Very clever.
Wow you have done well in your pioneering, you have completely changed the beasts heartbeat and must have changed the injection strategy to suit you would not want a cylinder to go pop when it shouldn't not in a 90 degree v and cross plane anyway (in there lays a secret of the ajp) not many people truly understand what takes place is with an analogue system (i call it cause its the same as the capacitor) is the Kv frequency jumps into the block is picked up from the block through the amp/capacitor (the bridge) as a back emf and meets the secondary but in your system the Kv jumps into the block and then back to centre electrode as a negative on the lead that shares the same secondary. so the secondary along with the plugs and leads become the bridge. Which is why you changed your plugs. Very clever.
Edited by O mage on Saturday 1st August 18:35
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