RE: Police tow car from hard shoulder
Friday 12th November 2004
Police tow car from hard shoulder
PHer's car is forcibly uplifted -- at his own expense.
Don't break down on the motorway if you value your wallet. That appears to be the lesson to be learnt from the experience of one PHer who broke down and called his breakdown service.
PHer cccscotland was on the M6 when his Mitsubishi's clutch failed. After calling the Mitsubishi breakdown service from the hard shoulder, a traffic police officer gave him half an hour to remove the vehicle or the police breakdown service would do it for him. Mitsubishi didn't turn up in time -- the police officer called it 'a race' -- and our PHer plus car were taken to the police depot where a swap was arranged between the two breakdown flatbeds. He was left with a bill of £105 for a service he didn't ask for and didn't want.
The police argument was that road safety was paramount and involved getting the car off the hard shoulder as quickly as possible. In his own words, cccscotland then:
"Phoned GMP [Greater Manchester Police] Authority, AA and RAC helpdesks, Lothian and Borders Police Traffic Div, and Derbyshire Police traffic div, plus my father, who lives in Manchester. None of them had ever heard of this. Wrote a nasty letter to GMP demanding my money back."
Though the matter has yet to be resolved, one suggestion is that the police has outsourced its breakdown service to a managing agent which employs a large recovery organisation, whose signature is its yellow vans, to do the job. As a result, there's a price to be paid for each uplift that the police arranges.
Among other, two key issues stand out:
- Is it right that the police should pass on the cost of enforced uplift in this way?
- Should the police breakdown service be outsourced anyway -- and if so, how and to whom?
Join the forum discussion here: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=10&t=136225&h=0
Discussion
It would be interesting if the police removal company was the same as the recovery service you had called. Would you still get charged ?
IMO this is a disgrace and although there are safety issues of cars on the hard shoulder you must be given a reasonable time to remove the vehicle - what are standard recovery times ? If like the AA they send a van first and then a flat bed it can take 2 hours to get the car removed.
IMO this is a disgrace and although there are safety issues of cars on the hard shoulder you must be given a reasonable time to remove the vehicle - what are standard recovery times ? If like the AA they send a van first and then a flat bed it can take 2 hours to get the car removed.
I've heard of this before. I'd broken down on a motorway (years ago), called a certain recovery org. While i was waiting, Bib turned up asked if I'd called anyone and if they were likely to turn up within the hour.
I told them who I called, the e.t.a. (which was within an hour), and they said fine and carried on.
I told them who I called, the e.t.a. (which was within an hour), and they said fine and carried on.
I had exactly the same experience - different car of course. I had snapped the half-shaft on my Land Rover after just getting onto the West bound M4 at Maidenhead. Rang the AA, who said the recovery vehicle would take one hour!
Next thing I know, blue flashing lights and a Police man knocking on my window. He said I had to move my vehicle, so I informed him of the recovery services being on their way! 45 minutes later the truck pulls up, grab my vehicle and drives off down the M4 towards London. Despite telling the AA which garage I want to go to, I tell the driver - he says "no, it's going to the pound - The police have asked us to remove your vehicle!" and produces a report from the police. There I was stuck with the B*****d with my vehicle on the back of the truck!
Had to pay £140 to get it out, then a further £100 to get it transported to a garage! I wrote endless letters to the Police Federation and Watchdog etc, nothing happened. Only my frustration and anger rising through the roof!
Next thing I know, blue flashing lights and a Police man knocking on my window. He said I had to move my vehicle, so I informed him of the recovery services being on their way! 45 minutes later the truck pulls up, grab my vehicle and drives off down the M4 towards London. Despite telling the AA which garage I want to go to, I tell the driver - he says "no, it's going to the pound - The police have asked us to remove your vehicle!" and produces a report from the police. There I was stuck with the B*****d with my vehicle on the back of the truck!
Had to pay £140 to get it out, then a further £100 to get it transported to a garage! I wrote endless letters to the Police Federation and Watchdog etc, nothing happened. Only my frustration and anger rising through the roof!
*slips into Democrat mode*
Why doesn't anyone appreciate that the gov't offered this kind service to the driver? We can't take care of ourselves, so we should be glad when the gov't does it for us!
*becomes sane again*
Don't UK police cars have bull bars on the front? That's what most non-urban cars over here have, for the purpose of being able to push vehicles if necessary.
Then again, perhaps UK police don't drive bigass Crown Vics...
Why doesn't anyone appreciate that the gov't offered this kind service to the driver? We can't take care of ourselves, so we should be glad when the gov't does it for us!
*becomes sane again*
Don't UK police cars have bull bars on the front? That's what most non-urban cars over here have, for the purpose of being able to push vehicles if necessary.
Then again, perhaps UK police don't drive bigass Crown Vics...
That has been happened to me when my old citroen ax gt with fualty fuel gauge ran out of fuel, parked at 'P' bay on dual carriage away, motorway. went get fuel. then come back. someone took my car. went to police station, few days of hassle paid £180 to get car back, then sold the car afterward.
jay
jay
So this now means I can buy a new car with a fault on it which I am unaware of. It then breaks down within a few days of ownership. I call the breakdown services who then proceed to turn up later than expected because of congestion problems and it costs me money. Thats utterly ridiculous 
Frostie
Frostie
Why not pass the bill to the Mitsubishi recovery service since they're the people who dropped you in this mess by being slow to respond?
The safety point is entirely valid but there should be an agreed time limit NATIONALLY that is published - if we know the rules, we will also know the consequence of breaking them.
Otherwise we, the long suffering, over-taxed, law-abiding motorists will naturally become suspicious that the Police seem to have stumbled across another stealthy way to take our money.
The safety point is entirely valid but there should be an agreed time limit NATIONALLY that is published - if we know the rules, we will also know the consequence of breaking them.
Otherwise we, the long suffering, over-taxed, law-abiding motorists will naturally become suspicious that the Police seem to have stumbled across another stealthy way to take our money.
So what happens if you break down and call your recovery service, then the police call there recovery service and it gets there before yours. Can you refuse to accept the uplift from the police recovery unit, if you try to stop them touching your car will you be arrested for obstructing the course of justice or something along those lines.
With regard to the guy who belonged to the AA, that sounds VERY dodgy - the recovery truck YOU requested follows police instructions and you get billed for a service you're already paying for???
With regard to those who belong to other organisations...they have (the better ones, anyway) published their own target times to get to you. So, arguably, either the police shouldn't enforce removal within that target time, or the recovery companies should recognise this law (IS IT a law??? And if not, why can't you then sue the police???) and GUARANTEE to pick you up sooner:-
Driver:"I've broken down on the M-xx. How quick can you pick me up?"
Recovery:"Sorry sir, that will be 2.5 hours, we're really busy as it's a bank holiday and all our drivers are headed to Cornwall"
D:"But the police are going to tow me in 1 hours time and charge me - I thought I was paying you for a service"
R:"Sorry sir, not our problem!"
Strikes me as, literally, highway robbery. It surely can't be ethical for those responsible for enforcing rules on the roads to:-
a) make the rules up as they want;
b) charge people as a result of these rules.
"Ooh look, it's Dick Turpin in his big Range Rover with the blue lights on top"
(I know this post is close to the knuckle as regards discussing the police, but, in this instance, without a clear, well-publicised law that is applied consistently across the country, I feel we have a right to feel somewhat "conned". Especially as the "motoring organisations" should be aware of the law, and not deliberately leaving their customers open to being charged for their failure to provide a prompt service, which begs the question: "Do the motoring organisations know???")
With regard to those who belong to other organisations...they have (the better ones, anyway) published their own target times to get to you. So, arguably, either the police shouldn't enforce removal within that target time, or the recovery companies should recognise this law (IS IT a law??? And if not, why can't you then sue the police???) and GUARANTEE to pick you up sooner:-
Driver:"I've broken down on the M-xx. How quick can you pick me up?"
Recovery:"Sorry sir, that will be 2.5 hours, we're really busy as it's a bank holiday and all our drivers are headed to Cornwall"
D:"But the police are going to tow me in 1 hours time and charge me - I thought I was paying you for a service"
R:"Sorry sir, not our problem!"
Strikes me as, literally, highway robbery. It surely can't be ethical for those responsible for enforcing rules on the roads to:-
a) make the rules up as they want;
b) charge people as a result of these rules.
"Ooh look, it's Dick Turpin in his big Range Rover with the blue lights on top"
(I know this post is close to the knuckle as regards discussing the police, but, in this instance, without a clear, well-publicised law that is applied consistently across the country, I feel we have a right to feel somewhat "conned". Especially as the "motoring organisations" should be aware of the law, and not deliberately leaving their customers open to being charged for their failure to provide a prompt service, which begs the question: "Do the motoring organisations know???")
Having read this thread i now think that if it happened to me and i'd tell the police that the recovery people will be there in 15 mins, whether they said 1 hour or not.
I'd also physically cause as much trouble to anyone who tried to take the car without my authority. Isn't unauthorised entry or taking something without permission theft anyway?
>> Edited by Battlecat on Friday 12th November 13:26
I'd also physically cause as much trouble to anyone who tried to take the car without my authority. Isn't unauthorised entry or taking something without permission theft anyway?
>> Edited by Battlecat on Friday 12th November 13:26
I think that our friend may well find that the contractors that the police use are contracted as part of the police recovery scheme.
This scheme has published rules. The police on finding an abandoned / stolen / brokendown car must first speak with the owner. if the owner gives consent for a recovery, then he will be charged. If a car is moved by the police without the owners knowledge, then the recovery firm are not able to claim payment from the owner if the owner has not first given consent.
Likewise if the owner in this instance can demonstrate that he took reasonable steps to remove his car then the police will find themselves at fault. I would make a formal complaint if I were him??
Neil.
This scheme has published rules. The police on finding an abandoned / stolen / brokendown car must first speak with the owner. if the owner gives consent for a recovery, then he will be charged. If a car is moved by the police without the owners knowledge, then the recovery firm are not able to claim payment from the owner if the owner has not first given consent.
Likewise if the owner in this instance can demonstrate that he took reasonable steps to remove his car then the police will find themselves at fault. I would make a formal complaint if I were him??
Neil.
Surely if it is a requirement to move a stricken vehicle from a Mway within a specified time limit the recovery organistions should either a) commit to acheiving this or b)state that the recovery policy you have purchased does not cover Mway failures!!!
Have to agree that this is just another opportunity for the force to sour the relationship with the public..
On the whole I am not entirely surprised after what happened to soemone I know...
His car broke a front suspension unit on a roundabout and the BIB very helpfully towed the car into a bus stop to remove from danger. Bloke goes away to get the relevant parts to fix (& tools) and comes back later that evening to find no car. BIB had 'towed' it as it was obstructing a bus stop. Worse still when we went to reclaim the car he found that they had towed it by breaking the windows and placing a chain through so that they could lift it with a Hi-ab. He found it 'parked' on top of 3 other cars with no windows and a buckled roof, still with all his personal effects in side. BIB wanted £260.00 for him to get it back (written off) and threatened to sue him if he didnt pay up. Car was not worth much do as far as I recall he broke in, removed his belongings and left the car where it was.. didnt have any cash to sue BiB with and was met with a wall of silence when he tried to pursue it himself...if I didn't remember this personally I wouldn't have believed it!
Have to agree that this is just another opportunity for the force to sour the relationship with the public..
On the whole I am not entirely surprised after what happened to soemone I know...
His car broke a front suspension unit on a roundabout and the BIB very helpfully towed the car into a bus stop to remove from danger. Bloke goes away to get the relevant parts to fix (& tools) and comes back later that evening to find no car. BIB had 'towed' it as it was obstructing a bus stop. Worse still when we went to reclaim the car he found that they had towed it by breaking the windows and placing a chain through so that they could lift it with a Hi-ab. He found it 'parked' on top of 3 other cars with no windows and a buckled roof, still with all his personal effects in side. BIB wanted £260.00 for him to get it back (written off) and threatened to sue him if he didnt pay up. Car was not worth much do as far as I recall he broke in, removed his belongings and left the car where it was.. didnt have any cash to sue BiB with and was met with a wall of silence when he tried to pursue it himself...if I didn't remember this personally I wouldn't have believed it!
This whole episode stinks. If the car was in an unsafe postion, and as we all know saftey is the paramount importance of all government Agencies (not revenue generation.....) then the car should have been towed by the plod to somewhere safe, where it could then be recovered from.....
I'm not a legal eagle but surely this must come under contract law as it cannot be classed as a fine or a tax. As such, provided you do not verbally accept their 'offer' to remove your vehicle, there is no contract and the BiB would surely lose any court case as they cannot produce any written or verbal contract to substantiate the charge for picking up and removing the vehicle?
As far as I'm aware, this is nothing new.
I heard of this six or seven years ago from a family friend in the Met police. They will give you one hour for the recovery service to arrive, after which they call their own recovery vehicle to remove you. cccscotland got away quite lightly from what my friend told me. He said that it was (then) usually £150 fee for removal from the hard shoulder, and they were not obliged to take you any further than the next exit. So literally they drove to the next slip road off, then deposited you and your car at the side of the A or B-road off of that junction with the motorway.
I have heard from other people who have fell foul of this that the AA, RAC and Green Flag (don't know about other services) have refunded these towing fees as they failed to provide an adequate service. So if you do get removed by the police, have a moan at your recovery provider.
I heard of this six or seven years ago from a family friend in the Met police. They will give you one hour for the recovery service to arrive, after which they call their own recovery vehicle to remove you. cccscotland got away quite lightly from what my friend told me. He said that it was (then) usually £150 fee for removal from the hard shoulder, and they were not obliged to take you any further than the next exit. So literally they drove to the next slip road off, then deposited you and your car at the side of the A or B-road off of that junction with the motorway.
I have heard from other people who have fell foul of this that the AA, RAC and Green Flag (don't know about other services) have refunded these towing fees as they failed to provide an adequate service. So if you do get removed by the police, have a moan at your recovery provider.
I broke down in a 7 1/2 ton lorry at 6:30 am on the M6 about a month ago (near Stoke). Faulty fuel gauge, another story!
Anyway, called lorry firm's owner where no-one was in until 7am! Then they wouldn't make a decision about what to do until boss arrived at 7:30?!
By now, plod had pulled up and given me their 'card' and a warning that I needed to be recovered soon.
A mechanic eventually arrived to sort out my problem at 9:45!!
2 issues here:
1. I was on the hard shoulder for over 3 hours with the hazards going and was not 'forceibly' towed.
2. Shouldn't lorry operators be compelled to have breakdown cover for their vehicles, rather than despatching a mechanic in a van 60 miles up a motorway?!
Anyway, called lorry firm's owner where no-one was in until 7am! Then they wouldn't make a decision about what to do until boss arrived at 7:30?!
By now, plod had pulled up and given me their 'card' and a warning that I needed to be recovered soon.
A mechanic eventually arrived to sort out my problem at 9:45!!
2 issues here:
1. I was on the hard shoulder for over 3 hours with the hazards going and was not 'forceibly' towed.
2. Shouldn't lorry operators be compelled to have breakdown cover for their vehicles, rather than despatching a mechanic in a van 60 miles up a motorway?!
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