Replica or Evocation.

[threespires]

What's the difference between a replica and an evocation?
What's the difference between 'interior has patina' and 'interior is worn out'
None to my mind, auction houses using estate agent language.

[Pothole]

Theoretically, a replica should be built using parts which are as similar as possible to the original, whereas an evocation is an old-style skin on new running gear.

e.g. a GTD F40 is a replica (spaceframe, Large capacity Ford V8, Hallibrands, etc.) but a Wiesmann is an evocation of a 'typical' British sports car of the 1950s.

[threespires]

The reason for the question is that Coys have an 'evocation' of an 300SLR in their next auction.
I think it's just an up-market word for what is essentially what some might call a kit car. But who would pay £150K for a kit car?

[Lowtimer]

Depends on what it's made of, and to what standards. There are people paying serious 6-figure sums for the very best Cobra, C-Type, D-Type evocations, for example.

[LordBretSinclair]

It's all marketing cr*p to get the most money they can for something that isn't the real thing

[Roy C]

threespires said:

What's the difference between a replica and an evocation?
What's the difference between 'interior has patina' and 'interior is worn out'
None to my mind, auction houses using estate agent language.

Quite right.

Car salesmen speak: good runner (you'll need to be), one lady owner (who bought it for her boy-racer son), must be seen (to be believed).

[guru_1071]

'tool room copy'

oh - f**k off

[Lowtimer]

I think this is a bit sweeping if aimed at the whole sector.
I know little of the specific car in question except to say that I doubt I'd be buying anything via Coys unless I knew and trusted the previous owner (in which case why buy it at Coys - I'd just go direct).

But in general, would I say no to a Lynx or Proteus C-type or D-type? Hell, no. They're utterly gorgeous.

[Roy C]

Lowtimer said:

I think this is a bit sweeping if aimed at the whole sector.

Probably,...

...but it's Coys.

'nuff said.

[jamieandthemagic]

it means whatever you want it to. you know its not the real thing, its just how close to the real thing is down to the level of investigation you carry out & how much your willing to pay for a copy.

I don't knock them, as sometimes the copys / evocation / replica is in ways better than the original (as a result of more modern knowledge / technology / materials used).

[DB7 pilot]

Didn't I read somewhere that Merc were actively searching for all the 300SL Gullwing replicas to have them destroyed? Would it extend to a replica 300SLR too? Have you the link threespires to that auction?

[threespires]

DB7 pilot said:

Didn't I read somewhere that Merc were actively searching for all the 300SL Gullwing replicas to have them destroyed? Would it extend to a replica 300SLR too? Have you the link threespires to that auction?

Hopefully this link works.
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?auctionID=39&amp...

The GT40 is listed as a Tribute, the 300SLR an Evocation

[DB7 pilot]

Thanks for the link.

Here's the link to the article I read:
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/2012/mercedes-benz...

[threespires]

DB7 pilot said:

Thanks for the link.

Here's the link to the article I read:
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/2012/mercedes-benz...

Very interesting. I wonder what the fate of the 'evocation' car will be.. It doesn't look good.

[Flatinfourth]

guru_1071 said:

'tool room copy'

oh - f**k off

A tool room copy would normally be created by someone that makes all the core components for owners of original csrs, if there are parts that will not swop onto an original car, then its just a replica...

[Flatinfourth]

A GTD is an evocation (kit car), as it is not intended to be an accurate or tool room replica. On the other hand if you asked Contour Autocraft to make an XK150 shell by hand, it would pass as original........
Interesting subject!

[roscobbc]

guru_1071 said:

'tool room copy'

oh - f**k off

As a (many years ago) time served 'Toolmaker' - the term is not applicable - a 'Toolmaker' is a precision engineer who makes tools. Not simple hand tools but complex mould tools, multi-stage press tools, jigs and fixtures. In 'old school parlance' a Model Maker would be a little closer - he would have some of the skills that a Toolmaker had but with perhaps some electrical and pattern making experience. None of the above would have the skills to fold, roll, squeeze, shape and stretch metals suitable for car body panels - small scale stuff perhaps.

[CanAm]

threespires said:

Hopefully this link works.
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?auctionID=39&amp...

The GT40 is listed as a Tribute, the 300SLR an Evocation

This GT40 has a 3-litre V6 and is a "replica" MkIII, the road-going version, but in a racing paint scheme of "white with black detail and Gulf livery" (ie a couple of Gulf stickers)and "The vehicle's registration status is not known, however it does come with a bill of sale from the auction where the car was purchased."

The phrase 'caveat emptor" comes to mind.
PS, the upholstery is horrendous.

[Flatinfourth]

CanAm said:

threespires said:

Hopefully this link works.
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?auctionID=39&amp...

The GT40 is listed as a Tribute, the 300SLR an Evocation

This GT40 has a 3-litre V6 and is a "replica" MkIII, the road-going version, but in a racing paint scheme of "white with black detail and Gulf livery" (ie a couple of Gulf stickers)and "The vehicle's registration status is not known, however it does come with a bill of sale from the auction where the car was purchased."

The phrase 'caveat emptor" comes to mind.
PS, the upholstery is horrendous.

Now that isn't either a replica or an 'evocation' if thats the case. If it only looks sort of ish from a distance then it doesn't go beyond tribute, so actually they have described it accurately, and anyone who doesn't understand the concept is a bit silly for not checking out the facts, Caveat emptor indeed!

[Flatinfourth]

roscobbc said:

guru_1071 said:

'tool room copy'

oh - f**k off

As a (many years ago) time served 'Toolmaker' - the term is not applicable - a 'Toolmaker' is a precision engineer who makes tools. Not simple hand tools but complex mould tools, multi-stage press tools, jigs and fixtures. In 'old school parlance' a Model Maker would be a little closer - he would have some of the skills that a Toolmaker had but with perhaps some electrical and pattern making experience. None of the above would have the skills to fold, roll, squeeze, shape and stretch metals suitable for car body panels - small scale stuff perhaps.

As I said in a previous post, those that produce components to accurately replace parts on an original car, are generally those who then take the next logical step into producing a whole car from the components they and therir suppliers make. That is a pretty skilled business, never to be confused with tributes/copies/evocations/replicas of any car where components or styling is simply inaccurate. If you are already i the business of being able to produce all the panels for a D Type, and the engine frame and rear subframe, then a car built using those accurate components goes way beyond what some describe as a kit car or replica, and all the craftmanship is not lost because the car is effectively new...