Broken plug shroud / won't start
Discussion
Stalled my Chimaera as I reversed off the drive this afternoon. Won't start now.
I tried cranking with the throttle fully open as advised on here, no joy. (This worked last time, although I disconnected the AFM meter as well as if that would help?!)
Decided to remove the plugs to help the engine dry out from being flooded (That took an hour and a half). The shroud on No.8 cylinder fractured on me. There's enough slack in the lead to connect it straight to the plug but is the shroud required for correct ignition? I ask because it still won't b****y start. A couple of coughs and then nothing.
It's in the road now, not on the drive, which is annoying enough but I think I'm going to have to leave it all night and try again tomorrow. Haven't had a problem cold or hot starting since getting it, until now. I also disconnected the air hose from the plenum and it still smelled strongly of petrol. Battery is coping OK... so far. Disconnected the ecu and reconnected as well. No difference.
I tried cranking with the throttle fully open as advised on here, no joy. (This worked last time, although I disconnected the AFM meter as well as if that would help?!)
Decided to remove the plugs to help the engine dry out from being flooded (That took an hour and a half). The shroud on No.8 cylinder fractured on me. There's enough slack in the lead to connect it straight to the plug but is the shroud required for correct ignition? I ask because it still won't b****y start. A couple of coughs and then nothing.
It's in the road now, not on the drive, which is annoying enough but I think I'm going to have to leave it all night and try again tomorrow. Haven't had a problem cold or hot starting since getting it, until now. I also disconnected the air hose from the plenum and it still smelled strongly of petrol. Battery is coping OK... so far. Disconnected the ecu and reconnected as well. No difference.
I tried to pull the fuel pump fuse but it's shared with the central locking system on my car (2000 model) so pushing it back in set the alarm off. That's why I took all the plugs out.
I have to hold the immob. button on the fob in for 2s to enable the fuel pump. It won't even turn over otherwise. With the fuse out, the immobiliser won't turn off.
I checked the diagram showing HT leads from distributor to plugs.
I'll try the fuel pump relay itself tomorrow if still stuck. Should be able it identify it after a search! Thanks.
I have to hold the immob. button on the fob in for 2s to enable the fuel pump. It won't even turn over otherwise. With the fuse out, the immobiliser won't turn off.
I checked the diagram showing HT leads from distributor to plugs.
I'll try the fuel pump relay itself tomorrow if still stuck. Should be able it identify it after a search! Thanks.
Good idea that. My sis and her hubbie (bless them) helped me push it back up the drive. Armageddon on the way tonoght so just in time I think. Still won't start. I'll do it slow time now anyway; I intended to take it off the road once the extra salt started going down until the spring so I'll start now.
Incidentally, does any one sell plug shrouds singly? I really don't need all 8 (£60 plus!). I seem to remember my Chimaera 500 10 years ago not having shrouds on nos 1 and 2 cylinders. I may do that, they aren't as close to the exhaust manifold as the rest. Here's the broken one:
Edited to add: just found Racing Green do them for £9.59 each so may get a couple.
Incidentally, does any one sell plug shrouds singly? I really don't need all 8 (£60 plus!). I seem to remember my Chimaera 500 10 years ago not having shrouds on nos 1 and 2 cylinders. I may do that, they aren't as close to the exhaust manifold as the rest. Here's the broken one:
Edited to add: just found Racing Green do them for £9.59 each so may get a couple.
Edited by ianwayne on Thursday 2nd January 19:52
I notice the shroud has 5 k ohms stamped on it, so I'm tempted by any spark plug cap with this resistance.
NGK do then for a few quid each that are made of phenolic resin. Designed for motor bikes really but they come with 90 or 120 degree bends:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-NGK-Spark-Plug-Cap-C...
NGK do then for a few quid each that are made of phenolic resin. Designed for motor bikes really but they come with 90 or 120 degree bends:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-NGK-Spark-Plug-Cap-C...
s p a c e m a n said:
You have to add racing greens postage onto that price 
I've got a slightly melty one, been looking for a couple of cheap replacements for about 8 months now
Yes, the TVR tax, I forgot about that. I've got a slightly melty one, been looking for a couple of cheap replacements for about 8 months now
I'll check the leads when it's dry, maybe a few days! The rain has just arrived here.
I don't think they're original, they're in too good nick for that, but are probably a few years old. Even if the resistance isn't required any more, the shrouds help keep some of the exhaust manifold heat away from the leads I expect.
Dry here this morning at the moment, seems the coast was worse. I digress.
HT leads have RISTS Suppression 1515 written on them. A quick I/net search only shows up one relevant return from the land rover forum so they're probably Range Rover / Land Rover leads.
Couple of coughs then nothing again this morning. Even short bursts with NO throttle. Looks like starting from basics. Dizzy cap off, plugs out (again
) check for spark with a plug out etc. etc. 
No garage so I'll be stopping when it rains, but it's to one side on the drive and not in the way.
HT leads have RISTS Suppression 1515 written on them. A quick I/net search only shows up one relevant return from the land rover forum so they're probably Range Rover / Land Rover leads.
Couple of coughs then nothing again this morning. Even short bursts with NO throttle. Looks like starting from basics. Dizzy cap off, plugs out (again
) check for spark with a plug out etc. etc. No garage so I'll be stopping when it rains, but it's to one side on the drive and not in the way.
Back to basics Ian. Don't assume the car not starting and the plug shround breaking are related.
I've test driven a Chimaera which was so obviously only running on 6 cylinders that we checked it and fixed it in the car park, so I'd be willing to bet your problem is not that shroud.
So check for a good spark first.
Check fuel - unless it already stinks of fuel and you have wet plugs. Can you hear the pump priming?
And reset the ECU
I've test driven a Chimaera which was so obviously only running on 6 cylinders that we checked it and fixed it in the car park, so I'd be willing to bet your problem is not that shroud.
So check for a good spark first.
Check fuel - unless it already stinks of fuel and you have wet plugs. Can you hear the pump priming?
And reset the ECU
Started raining so full diagnosis (?) can wait but thanks anyway. I agree, the shroud won't stop it starting, they'll start on 5 or 6 cylinders.
I disconnected and reset the ecu first this morning. The plugs were new in March 2013 (NGK B7ECS)and only done 2000 miles, but it wouldn't hurt to regap them I suppose. I took no.2 out and it was wet with fuel. Yes the pupm is priming, perhaps the injectors are over generous? Searches on here suggest there is no initial pulse burst of fuel until the engine is cranked but some opinions differ.
I'm going to try the tip of removing the fuel pump relay and cranking with the plugs out when we next get a dry day?! I think in this cool weather the cylinders still probably had a lot of fuel in them even after leaving overnight.
I disconnected and reset the ecu first this morning. The plugs were new in March 2013 (NGK B7ECS)and only done 2000 miles, but it wouldn't hurt to regap them I suppose. I took no.2 out and it was wet with fuel. Yes the pupm is priming, perhaps the injectors are over generous? Searches on here suggest there is no initial pulse burst of fuel until the engine is cranked but some opinions differ.
I'm going to try the tip of removing the fuel pump relay and cranking with the plugs out when we next get a dry day?! I think in this cool weather the cylinders still probably had a lot of fuel in them even after leaving overnight.
Edited by ianwayne on Friday 3rd January 10:09
The plug caps are also the same as many Renault engine Volvos from recent years, and probably many other cars.
Try the C70 pre 1995 for example (not that Volvo itself is a cheap parts supplier, but others will be)
Never be afraid to contact Racing Green (or any of the other TVR parts suppliers) by telephone.
They are not monsters and rarely bite! I promise
I am often given an improved price on postage if it is possible; depends on the size / weight of your order of course, and even discount on the published parts prices occasionally.
It may also be worth remembering that TVRCC membership costs under £55, and many of these suppliers offer 5-10 percent discount for club members.
Try the C70 pre 1995 for example (not that Volvo itself is a cheap parts supplier, but others will be)
Never be afraid to contact Racing Green (or any of the other TVR parts suppliers) by telephone.
They are not monsters and rarely bite! I promise
I am often given an improved price on postage if it is possible; depends on the size / weight of your order of course, and even discount on the published parts prices occasionally.
It may also be worth remembering that TVRCC membership costs under £55, and many of these suppliers offer 5-10 percent discount for club members.
Getting good at this. Sun's out now, 20 mins to get the other 7 plugs out. All soaked in fuel even though it's 2 hrs since I last tried it. All drying out in the shed, I can only get away with the kitchen smelling of evaporating super unleaded for so long!
I'll resurrect this when I've sorted it out. I hope it's not IF and I have to resort to an expert. TVR Central are only 2 miles away but I really hope it's something simple.
I'll resurrect this when I've sorted it out. I hope it's not IF and I have to resort to an expert. TVR Central are only 2 miles away but I really hope it's something simple.
ianwayne said:
Getting good at this. Sun's out now, 20 mins to get the other 7 plugs out. All soaked in fuel even though it's 2 hrs since I last tried it. All drying out in the shed, I can only get away with the kitchen smelling of evaporating super unleaded for so long!
I'll resurrect this when I've sorted it out. I hope it's not IF and I have to resort to an expert. TVR Central are only 2 miles away but I really hope it's something simple.
Are you sure you have a spark, easy to check, just put a plug in one of the leads and hold it near the engine while you crank, best to hold it with something that is insulated as it can have you hopping around a bit otherwise. If you have no spark try another lead. I'll resurrect this when I've sorted it out. I hope it's not IF and I have to resort to an expert. TVR Central are only 2 miles away but I really hope it's something simple.
If you confirm no spark the first place I would look is the LT area of the coil and ignition module, spade connectors etc, I've had mine work loose before.
It's alive. 
After replacing the coil to distributor lead, I refitted the spark plugs and was careful to only torque them to 25Nm before the rain came.. again. I broke another of the shrouds trying to straighten a bent end so now only using 6. (Nos 1 and 2 cylinders not using them)
Nevertheless, I cranked a couple of times with the fuel pump relay still removed to check the battery still had enough juice. Replaced the fuel pump relay and it started after about 2 seconds of cranking.
Kudos to the battery (can't see the make). It cranked the engine for 10 - 15 mins last Thursday with no joy. Since then, I haven't even charged it, and I've been in and out of the car activating the door solenoids, and the immobiliser drains it a bit. Still, it fired the beasty up first time.
Lessons learned?
1. No throttle when I start the car and leave it idling for a couple of minutes before attempting to move it. When it's stone cold at idle, opening the throttle cause the engine to almost die so I probably need to check the throttle pot outputs and even maybe the base idle. Tends to hunt between 1200 and 1600 rpm whilst the engine is still 'tepid' as well.
2. When it's flooded with petrol, it really is flooded!
3. Try not to remove the ht leads from the distributor unless you really have to.
4. Tag the leads (got a little yellow set off ebay for £1.89) so you don't have to keep tracing back to the distributor to make sure of the firing order.
After replacing the coil to distributor lead, I refitted the spark plugs and was careful to only torque them to 25Nm before the rain came.. again. I broke another of the shrouds trying to straighten a bent end so now only using 6. (Nos 1 and 2 cylinders not using them)
Nevertheless, I cranked a couple of times with the fuel pump relay still removed to check the battery still had enough juice. Replaced the fuel pump relay and it started after about 2 seconds of cranking.
Kudos to the battery (can't see the make). It cranked the engine for 10 - 15 mins last Thursday with no joy. Since then, I haven't even charged it, and I've been in and out of the car activating the door solenoids, and the immobiliser drains it a bit. Still, it fired the beasty up first time.
Lessons learned?
1. No throttle when I start the car and leave it idling for a couple of minutes before attempting to move it. When it's stone cold at idle, opening the throttle cause the engine to almost die so I probably need to check the throttle pot outputs and even maybe the base idle. Tends to hunt between 1200 and 1600 rpm whilst the engine is still 'tepid' as well.
2. When it's flooded with petrol, it really is flooded!
3. Try not to remove the ht leads from the distributor unless you really have to.
4. Tag the leads (got a little yellow set off ebay for £1.89) so you don't have to keep tracing back to the distributor to make sure of the firing order.
ianwayne said:
It's alive.
After replacing the coil to distributor lead, I refitted the spark plugs and was careful to only torque them to 25Nm before the rain came.. again. I broke another of the shrouds trying to straighten a bent end so now only using 6. (Nos 1 and 2 cylinders not using them)
Nevertheless, I cranked a couple of times with the fuel pump relay still removed to check the battery still had enough juice. Replaced the fuel pump relay and it started after about 2 seconds of cranking.
Kudos to the battery (can't see the make). It cranked the engine for 10 - 15 mins last Thursday with no joy. Since then, I haven't even charged it, and I've been in and out of the car activating the door solenoids, and the immobiliser drains it a bit. Still, it fired the beasty up first time.
Lessons learned?
1. No throttle when I start the car and leave it idling for a couple of minutes before attempting to move it. When it's stone cold at idle, opening the throttle cause the engine to almost die so I probably need to check the throttle pot outputs and even maybe the base idle. Tends to hunt between 1200 and 1600 rpm whilst the engine is still 'tepid' as well.
2. When it's flooded with petrol, it really is flooded!
3. Try not to remove the ht leads from the distributor unless you really have to.
4. Tag the leads (got a little yellow set off ebay for £1.89) so you don't have to keep tracing back to the distributor to make sure of the firing order.
Good job Ian, & nice to see your an all year round TVR user too After replacing the coil to distributor lead, I refitted the spark plugs and was careful to only torque them to 25Nm before the rain came.. again. I broke another of the shrouds trying to straighten a bent end so now only using 6. (Nos 1 and 2 cylinders not using them)
Nevertheless, I cranked a couple of times with the fuel pump relay still removed to check the battery still had enough juice. Replaced the fuel pump relay and it started after about 2 seconds of cranking.
Kudos to the battery (can't see the make). It cranked the engine for 10 - 15 mins last Thursday with no joy. Since then, I haven't even charged it, and I've been in and out of the car activating the door solenoids, and the immobiliser drains it a bit. Still, it fired the beasty up first time.
Lessons learned?
1. No throttle when I start the car and leave it idling for a couple of minutes before attempting to move it. When it's stone cold at idle, opening the throttle cause the engine to almost die so I probably need to check the throttle pot outputs and even maybe the base idle. Tends to hunt between 1200 and 1600 rpm whilst the engine is still 'tepid' as well.
2. When it's flooded with petrol, it really is flooded!
3. Try not to remove the ht leads from the distributor unless you really have to.
4. Tag the leads (got a little yellow set off ebay for £1.89) so you don't have to keep tracing back to the distributor to make sure of the firing order.
I'll be taking mine on a little 220 mile run tomorrow to stretch her legs, a TVR needs using and will thank you for it
Feel proud & enjoy the reward of using yours now you've fixed it
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