RE: F1 with turbos: Time For Tea?
Friday 3rd January 2014
2014 brings in lots of change for F1, the introduction of turbos of course being the most significant. So what better time to revisit the last era of turbocharged F1 cars?
F1 with turbos: Time For Tea?
Things have changed a fair bit since the 80s!
To be honest, '1450bhp F1 BMW Turbo' really sells this video short as it's so much more than that. These fifteen minutes of qualifying coverage from Adelaide includes commentary from Murray Walker and James Hunt, some unbelievable stats and Jackie Stewart. Lots of Jackie Stewart in fact.
The indomitable Scot talks us through a contemporary F1 cabin which could be described as haphazard at best. The dials for adjusting brake balance, roll stiffness and turbo pressure are seemingly scattered wherever. There's a myriad of needles to watch too, as well as that little gearlever to keep the drivers occupied...
Of course, there's plenty of ballsy driving too. See Gerhard Berger getting it very out of shape about 11 minutes in, and every single car belching out plumes of smoke as 1,300hp combusts. Awesome.
Watch it here
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
No idea what use an oil pressure gauge is to an F1 driver? Surely you just drive it till it breaks?
Also at 10.41, whats all the liquid running out the back of the Bennetton BMW? (coolant maybe from 1st hot lap?)
Handy to know when an engine is going to seize though - 140mph sweeping bend with the rears locked could be somewhat fatal.Also at 10.41, whats all the liquid running out the back of the Bennetton BMW? (coolant maybe from 1st hot lap?)
A time when men were men and F1 was worth watching. Love how you can tell the drivers are on the limit with the cars twitching and moving about, getting squirrelly on the brakes, and then great plumes of black smoke from the turbos when they give it full throttle. A proper handful, but as it should be for the top flight of the sport. Makes current F1 look pathetic really.
There is a very good DVD about of Jackie Stewart racing the Tyrell at the 1971 Monaco GP. It is called Weekend of a Champion and is directed by Roman Polanski. If you really want to see how much things have changed (for the better) in F1 then watch this video of the three days of practice and the race itself. In those days the pits were set up on the pavement! He also reflects on the number of drivers killed in GP racing; it was the reason he retired when he did.
Shurv said:
A time when men were men and F1 was worth watching. Love how you can tell the drivers are on the limit with the cars twitching and moving about, getting squirrelly on the brakes, and then great plumes of black smoke from the turbos when they give it full throttle. A proper handful, but as it should be for the top flight of the sport. Makes current F1 look pathetic really.
... but obvioulsy not taking into account that cornering speeds where significantely lower, G forces lower, drivers less fit, not every move of a driver (piquet anyone) be commented on social media with there breakfast beeing analized if they did not so well (James Hunt) a bit of a pointless comparison reallyto bring it into something else - a medevial longbow soldier or a SAS guy more of a man????
Both cars and atheletes are and were the best of the respective area - its always a proper handful - hence there are less formula one cockpits then applicants - all imo of course
I think the videos and some of the comments above typify where F1 is at present.
There used to be a lot of unknowns in the sport - the cars seriously pushing the envelope of the possible, the reliability of them as a result, drivers on the ragged edge partly also as a result but also because they were perhaps not all monitoring every calorie ingested and spending every waking hour in the gym or on the simulator.
The sport is massively more professional now. But it's now not as exciting for many when it comes to viewing.
I vividly remember being on the edge of my seat watching in the mid-80s. You just didn't know whether a car/driver would make it round for many reasons and all the time looking incredibly fast and, most importantly, massively hard work.
The professionalism that's been introduced in the last 15yrs or so has made it all a bit too predictable. There's still some degree of fascination seeing how much speed Newey can squeeze out of overly restrictive regulations, harnessing it with the metronomic ability of a driver like Vettel...but it's like marvelling at an accountant's balance sheet - interesting that someone can construct such a thing but ultimately a bit boring unless you're in the game.
The best thing they could do IMO, rather than dick about with points allocations for arbitrary GPs or trying to curb spend is go all out s
t or bust. Tear up the majority of the restrictions on the cars (perhaps just note a maximum width and wheels size that gives plenty of overtaking opportunity on most circuits?) and let the manufacturers spend themselves into oblivion chasing the ultimate prize, and as a result make the cars a bit more of a handful.
While they're at it, bring back some of the old "dangerous" circuits. Get some technological input from the teams etc on safety barriers etc and spend shed loads of the money in the sport on ensuring flooded coverage by marshalls and medical personnel. Get away from the anaemic, bland, "safe" circuits and give the drivers something to think about. With improvements in car safety and what could no doubt be achieved elsewhere, no one's talking about bringing back deaths every season. But at least make the tracks a real challenge where setting the same time within a thousandth lap after lap for 2hrs isn't doable.
There used to be a lot of unknowns in the sport - the cars seriously pushing the envelope of the possible, the reliability of them as a result, drivers on the ragged edge partly also as a result but also because they were perhaps not all monitoring every calorie ingested and spending every waking hour in the gym or on the simulator.
The sport is massively more professional now. But it's now not as exciting for many when it comes to viewing.
I vividly remember being on the edge of my seat watching in the mid-80s. You just didn't know whether a car/driver would make it round for many reasons and all the time looking incredibly fast and, most importantly, massively hard work.
The professionalism that's been introduced in the last 15yrs or so has made it all a bit too predictable. There's still some degree of fascination seeing how much speed Newey can squeeze out of overly restrictive regulations, harnessing it with the metronomic ability of a driver like Vettel...but it's like marvelling at an accountant's balance sheet - interesting that someone can construct such a thing but ultimately a bit boring unless you're in the game.
The best thing they could do IMO, rather than dick about with points allocations for arbitrary GPs or trying to curb spend is go all out s
t or bust. Tear up the majority of the restrictions on the cars (perhaps just note a maximum width and wheels size that gives plenty of overtaking opportunity on most circuits?) and let the manufacturers spend themselves into oblivion chasing the ultimate prize, and as a result make the cars a bit more of a handful.While they're at it, bring back some of the old "dangerous" circuits. Get some technological input from the teams etc on safety barriers etc and spend shed loads of the money in the sport on ensuring flooded coverage by marshalls and medical personnel. Get away from the anaemic, bland, "safe" circuits and give the drivers something to think about. With improvements in car safety and what could no doubt be achieved elsewhere, no one's talking about bringing back deaths every season. But at least make the tracks a real challenge where setting the same time within a thousandth lap after lap for 2hrs isn't doable.
when we look back in years to come i honestly think the 80's will be the decade where motorsport really was a Mad man's sport. Looking at the way those F1 cars handled of that era, twitchy even on a straight and where a lower lap time could only be achieved with extra power. We'll never see that again, the days of 1300 bhp engines are long gone. looking at Rallycross and Group B Rallying, it really was the decade that was all about power.
Also look at F1 then, wasn't it great, the cars looked good, classic names drivers, dangerous handling cars, christ even the sponsors looked good with Canon, JPS, and so on. F1 in the modern age is not a patch on that. Now its all too scientific and the fun and unknowns have gone. Its basically no fun anymore
Also look at F1 then, wasn't it great, the cars looked good, classic names drivers, dangerous handling cars, christ even the sponsors looked good with Canon, JPS, and so on. F1 in the modern age is not a patch on that. Now its all too scientific and the fun and unknowns have gone. Its basically no fun anymore
sortedcossie said:
Quality bit of footage, hard to believe now how exposed the drivers heads were in the 80's and early 90's.
Yes it is quite shocking really. No wonder they were getting killed left, right and centre. 
The safety aspects have to be the best and most important improvements over the last 10-20 years or so.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Friday 3rd January 18:38
Rose tinted glasses I'm sure. But it's just not as entertaining to watch any more.
Trying to inject false jeopardy insults the audience.
It's a shame they can't get back to having more mechanical grip and less aero grip.
Cars in clean air always have the advantage. Those following are penalised in the dirty air. DRS helps redress the balance but it's restricted use isn't enough.
Plus up the power back to some hairy 4 digit outputs would be fun too. They should be grappling with 2000hp by now.
The double points fiasco if implemented will ensure I cancel my Sky F1 subscription for sure.
Trying to inject false jeopardy insults the audience.
It's a shame they can't get back to having more mechanical grip and less aero grip.
Cars in clean air always have the advantage. Those following are penalised in the dirty air. DRS helps redress the balance but it's restricted use isn't enough.
Plus up the power back to some hairy 4 digit outputs would be fun too. They should be grappling with 2000hp by now.
The double points fiasco if implemented will ensure I cancel my Sky F1 subscription for sure.
Oh, so turbo F1 will be just as cool as this next year?
.....
WRONG!!
Hope it is though
edit
All of these older cars just look so much better
Massively wide with massively wide tyres.......they are powerful and look it too
Today they look long and narrow..........they arent as powerful and look it too
They sounded better before as well...more BEEFY
F1 from 2013 was much like a house fly. Super fast incredibly nimble but effing annoying noise buzzing around and somehow weedy/pathetic
.....
WRONG!!
Hope it is though
edit
All of these older cars just look so much better
Massively wide with massively wide tyres.......they are powerful and look it too
Today they look long and narrow..........they arent as powerful and look it too
They sounded better before as well...more BEEFY
F1 from 2013 was much like a house fly. Super fast incredibly nimble but effing annoying noise buzzing around and somehow weedy/pathetic
Edited by dtrump on Friday 3rd January 20:22
Leggy said:
Rose tinted glasses I'm sure. But it's just not as entertaining to watch any more.
Trying to inject false jeopardy insults the audience.
It's a shame they can't get back to having more mechanical grip and less aero grip.
Cars in clean air always have the advantage. Those following are penalised in the dirty air. DRS helps redress the balance but it's restricted use isn't enough.
Plus up the power back to some hairy 4 digit outputs would be fun too. They should be grappling with 2000hp by now.
The double points fiasco if implemented will ensure I cancel my Sky F1 subscription for sure.
Less aero is the answer but it will not happen. The big teams with their wind tunnels do not want Marussia and co on a level playing field. Trying to inject false jeopardy insults the audience.
It's a shame they can't get back to having more mechanical grip and less aero grip.
Cars in clean air always have the advantage. Those following are penalised in the dirty air. DRS helps redress the balance but it's restricted use isn't enough.
Plus up the power back to some hairy 4 digit outputs would be fun too. They should be grappling with 2000hp by now.
The double points fiasco if implemented will ensure I cancel my Sky F1 subscription for sure.
Such a shame.
2/10 for the article, I expected some new F1 facts not someone bleating half-heartedly about the past - again.
I did find this entertaining though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjvgmfPoJ5M
Warning: You'll need 1hr 45 mins to watch it.
I did find this entertaining though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjvgmfPoJ5M
Warning: You'll need 1hr 45 mins to watch it.
Brilliant 15 minutes of footage. Cant remember the last time quali had me gripped. The sound of these cars popping and hissing and the loads being put through the tyres and chassis is fantastic to watch. Can't remember the last time I saw an F1 car grab power oversteer on a hot dry track. The 80's was by far the peak of motorsport from a pure driving enthusiast's perspective no doubt. Lewis Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi Raikonen must look back on the 80's and wish they had a time machine as all three would have bee n hugely exciting to watch in these cars.
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