17 Seat minibus - 8 seats, what liscense for commercial use?
Discussion
So with a normal full UK liscence gained in 1994 if you bought a 17 seater minibus but removed 8 seats leaving 9, one for the driver and only 8 passenger seats, as for the business you will be carrying loads of luggage. What are the liscence requirements? Technically does it stop being a minibus as a minibus is defined as having 9 but equal to or less than 16 passenger seats, even though is was manufactured as a minibus?
Herman Toothrot said:
I would be re-registering it. Passed test pre 1997 so full D1 already.
The D1 you have only entitles you to drive a minibus not for profit (I.e. private use), but the registration would render it a moot point anyway. Check how the inusurance views a modified van. Ford did build a 9 seat transit shuttle with a large load area and full height luggage cage, which is what we currently run to avoid D1 issues (alongside some 17 seaters which have D1 licensed drivers).
chrisw666 said:
The D1 you have only entitles you to drive a minibus not for profit (I.e. private use), but the registration would render it a moot point anyway.
Check how the inusurance views a modified van. Ford did build a 9 seat transit shuttle with a large load area and full height luggage cage, which is what we currently run to avoid D1 issues (alongside some 17 seaters which have D1 licensed drivers).
Ah I see, didn't know there are grades of D1.Check how the inusurance views a modified van. Ford did build a 9 seat transit shuttle with a large load area and full height luggage cage, which is what we currently run to avoid D1 issues (alongside some 17 seaters which have D1 licensed drivers).
A van would probably be fine / in some ways better. My needs would be to transport 8 passengers & 9 bikes, the transport is incidental to guiding rides.
chrisw666 said:
If its being driven with paying passengers you would need a full D1 licence, unless you had RE-registered the vehicle as a 9 seater with the DVLA.
as above Also in terms of use for business purposes, as a 8+Driver vehicle it's a Private Hire Vehicle ( aka a minicab) and therefore needs PHV licence/ vehicle badge from the relevant LA and driver needs PH or taxi 'Badge' from the relevant LA (or if a compact exists one from within the compact) , where if it was over 8 passengers it would be a Bus and you would need an O - licence from the Traffic Commissioners/ VOSA , an operating centre, maintainance contract and associated funding in place as well as a Transport Manager with a transport manager's CPC.
In terms of the D1 licence for the driver a pre 1997 D1 is restriction 101 which does not permit the driver to drive for hire or reward, although there is some uncertainty whether this can be overridden by completing PCV Driver CPC ...
Herman Toothrot said:
My needs would be to transport 8 passengers & 9 bikes, the transport is incidental to guiding rides.
9 seater, Transit or Transporter will both do it well. Then a 10 bike trailer from the place below, they really are very good trailers & won't mean you need another licence.
www.burtechtrailers.co.uk/category.asp?catID=1
mph1977 said:
as above
Also in terms of use for business purposes, as a 8+Driver vehicle it's a Private Hire Vehicle ( aka a minicab) and therefore needs PHV licence/ vehicle badge from the relevant LA and driver needs PH or taxi 'Badge' from the relevant LA .
Would it be a PHV if customers were paying you to a) guide them b) provide accommodation c) get them and their bikes to the place to go riding? I.e. a wider business rather than simply like phoning a taxi company?Also in terms of use for business purposes, as a 8+Driver vehicle it's a Private Hire Vehicle ( aka a minicab) and therefore needs PHV licence/ vehicle badge from the relevant LA and driver needs PH or taxi 'Badge' from the relevant LA .
chrisw666 said:
9 seater, Transit or Transporter will both do it well.
Then a 10 bike trailer from the place below, they really are very good trailers & won't mean you need another licence.
www.burtechtrailers.co.uk/category.asp?catID=1
Yes seen those trailers, slung my bike on other peoples many times. I was thinking bigger bus / van to have a separate load area at the back to put bikes in, as it would be a load unload once a day rather than hopping on and off. Maybe too much of a squeeze mind.Then a 10 bike trailer from the place below, they really are very good trailers & won't mean you need another licence.
www.burtechtrailers.co.uk/category.asp?catID=1
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Sunday 5th January 13:52
Herman Toothrot said:
Yes seen those trailers, slung my bike on other peoples many times. I was thinking bigger bus / van to have a separate load area at the back to put bikes in, as it would be a load unload once a day rather than hopping on and off. Maybe too much of a squeeze mind.
Safety, comfort and looking after the bikes would make me lean towards the trailer every time. Its super light and I've towed a loaded one in a small car and barely noticed it. This is the type of van we use with 9 seats and a small load area. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2013-FORD-TRANSIT-2-2TD-FORD-TR...
RE your other question if part of your business offer is transport then you are operating on a hire or reward basis and would need a full D1 if your vehicle isn't registered as a 9 seater. I don't employ staff to drive, but part of our offer to people is include transport and while technically they could drive a 17 seater on the D1 you currently have our insurer has stated they will only provide cover if the drivers of vehicles with more than 8 passenger seats holds a full D1 (or greater) acquired by sitting a test.
Herman Toothrot said:
mph1977 said:
as above
Also in terms of use for business purposes, as a 8+Driver vehicle it's a Private Hire Vehicle ( aka a minicab) and therefore needs PHV licence/ vehicle badge from the relevant LA and driver needs PH or taxi 'Badge' from the relevant LA .
Would it be a PHV if customers were paying you to a) guide them b) provide accommodation c) get them and their bikes to the place to go riding? I.e. a wider business rather than simply like phoning a taxi company?Also in terms of use for business purposes, as a 8+Driver vehicle it's a Private Hire Vehicle ( aka a minicab) and therefore needs PHV licence/ vehicle badge from the relevant LA and driver needs PH or taxi 'Badge' from the relevant LA .
<snip>
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Sunday 5th January 13:52
So essentially if 9 seaters used D1 is irrelevant however I'd need to register as private hire. Need to find out all about that then, the mention of local authority does it matter if you go all over the place?
I'm thinking along the lines of getting people out of big urban areas where car ownership isn't so high but bike use is into the sticks with accommodation, then show them where to ride - something that would otherwise be a pita for them to do. I've met people at trail centre before who have got on trains then ridden miles just to get to where they want to ride, hidden gear in the woods etc.
I'm thinking along the lines of getting people out of big urban areas where car ownership isn't so high but bike use is into the sticks with accommodation, then show them where to ride - something that would otherwise be a pita for them to do. I've met people at trail centre before who have got on trains then ridden miles just to get to where they want to ride, hidden gear in the woods etc.
Herman
as i said you'll need specialist advice re the PHV aspect - IF you do need pHVlicencing you choose the one which best suits you - although the taxi trade and some PHV operators put out myths about havign to use a locally licenced vehicle / firm it doesn't matter where the origin and destination are in relation the LA the PHV is licenced with ...
also just to add before anyone pops up with their preferred provider doesn;t have PHV badges on their vehicles - in certain circumstances external PHV badge and signage is not required - different LAs have different rules ...
as i said you'll need specialist advice re the PHV aspect - IF you do need pHVlicencing you choose the one which best suits you - although the taxi trade and some PHV operators put out myths about havign to use a locally licenced vehicle / firm it doesn't matter where the origin and destination are in relation the LA the PHV is licenced with ...
also just to add before anyone pops up with their preferred provider doesn;t have PHV badges on their vehicles - in certain circumstances external PHV badge and signage is not required - different LAs have different rules ...
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