Which DAC for TV to Hifi? (CA Dacmagic 100 maybe?)
Discussion
I'm finally getting around to resolving the issue I have with the audio from the TV. The Samsung D8000 doesn't have an analogue out and the hifi doesn't have a digital in, so the Sky box is connected directly to the hifi. The audio delay is set on the Sky box, but that doesn't work for other inputs obviously and it's not always spot on. So it's time to get a DAC. NB: Before anyone suggests it's time to get a new hifi, that's not going to happen. Keeping it for TV and occasional music has benefits for me...
The issue here is the wildly varying prices of DACs and I have zero experience of how they perform.. £10 will get me one on eBay and the Cyp AU-D3 is only £50 or so from Keene. However, it's possible to spend £loads on these things, so I'm wary. The output obviously at least needs to match what the DAC in the Sky box is currently producing!
I believe that you get what you pay for and must balance this against the law of diminishing returns. Therefore, I'm inclined to go for the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 from Richer Sounds, which is now £150.
Anyone have any experience of the above? Does my decision making process hold water here? Is there a better alternative?
Thanks in advance for the help (tried a 'search', but failed to come up with anything useful).
The issue here is the wildly varying prices of DACs and I have zero experience of how they perform.. £10 will get me one on eBay and the Cyp AU-D3 is only £50 or so from Keene. However, it's possible to spend £loads on these things, so I'm wary. The output obviously at least needs to match what the DAC in the Sky box is currently producing!
I believe that you get what you pay for and must balance this against the law of diminishing returns. Therefore, I'm inclined to go for the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 from Richer Sounds, which is now £150.
Anyone have any experience of the above? Does my decision making process hold water here? Is there a better alternative?
Thanks in advance for the help (tried a 'search', but failed to come up with anything useful).
Fiio DACs are meant to be excellent for the money. Which model depends on exactly which type of input you need (optical etc).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog...
I have my Samsung TV hooked up to one of these via the optical out and then into my Hi-Fi.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-Digital-Analogue-Ste...
There is a definite improvement over the TV sound out of the headphone socket into the Hi-Fi.
The DAC magic are well regarded, or something like the Arcam rLink can be had 2nd hand for around £100 or less on eBay when they crop up.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcam-Rlink-Brand-New-Bo...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-Digital-Analogue-Ste...
There is a definite improvement over the TV sound out of the headphone socket into the Hi-Fi.
The DAC magic are well regarded, or something like the Arcam rLink can be had 2nd hand for around £100 or less on eBay when they crop up.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcam-Rlink-Brand-New-Bo...
The Fiio DACs are pretty good - as is the entry level DAC found in Maplin which I used for quite a while on my TV.
I ended up swapping to a Beresford Caiman; albeit with the Gator board upgrade. They can be found quite easily on eBay and offer far better performance for not much more money as well as offering more input options which is handy if you have several sources.
I ended up swapping to a Beresford Caiman; albeit with the Gator board upgrade. They can be found quite easily on eBay and offer far better performance for not much more money as well as offering more input options which is handy if you have several sources.
That's interesting, thanks. Out of interest, do you need to turn it on or does it power-up as soon as it sees an input? I have the same query over the Cambridge Audio kit too. The cheaper devices appear to be powered up all the time, but the posher stuff looks like you might have to turn it on manually. As it is intended for it to be housed out of sight in a cupboard, this will an issue...
FWIW I picked up the cyp au_d3 from richer sounds for £30-40, and I'm pretty happy with it. I run my tv into it through toslink, and my laptop through the coax via USB. It's got a manual switch between the 2 inputs, but other than that is powered up whenever the mains transformer is switched on. Doing back to back between CD player > amp versus MP3 > laptop > USB > DAC > amp I can't tell the difference...
budgie smuggler said:
Fiio DACs are meant to be excellent for the money. Which model depends on exactly which type of input you need (optical etc).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog...
This. Check the reviews, people dumping more expensive DACs proving that basically it's all marketing hype http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog...
Proper DACs are not marketing hype, but those sold to hi-fi users may not be all they seem vs high-end studio ones from companies like Lavry, Prism or even Apogee. If I were going to spend money on a DAC, I'd be heading for one of those vs the "pretty" ones in the hi-fi mags.
For a sky box, I would consider trying the Fiio one out at that price and seeing how it is first.
For a sky box, I would consider trying the Fiio one out at that price and seeing how it is first.
TB303 said:
Proper DACs are not marketing hype, but those sold to hi-fi users may not be all they seem vs high-end studio ones from companies like Lavry, Prism or even Apogee.
That's my point really. Those companies don't really need to market their products as "will make your music collection sound like angels singing in your ears" unlike your usual hi-fi companies Thanks for the advice. I've listened and done some more research based on these comments. Conclusion? Have just ordered the FiiO. I was prepared to pay more for something a little more 'impressive', but everyone I looked at had a single fatal flaw - they had to be powered on manually. That's a problem when the thing is going to live in a cupboard out of site. The FiiO can be powered by USB from the TV, saving a power socket and providing an automatic on. If it is equal to, or better than, the DAC inside the Sky box, then I should be happy enough as that's what I've been living with for the last couple of years!
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
Sorry, I've only just found your thread, but you may run into trouble on the HD channels. Many programmes on the HD channels have a 5.1 Dolby Digital audio stream, which your DAC (and others suggested here) won't be able to decode:- at best silence, at worst huge amount of static. :-\
For SD channels and HD programmes in stereo it should be absolutely fine though.
So options: See if you can tweak your telly to down mix any 5.1 streams to stereo PCM which you DAC can handle. In which case, sorted, panic over.
Or pick up a basic Dolby Digital decoder. Something like the old Cambridge Audio V500 would do the trick (but they don't pop often).
For SD channels and HD programmes in stereo it should be absolutely fine though.
So options: See if you can tweak your telly to down mix any 5.1 streams to stereo PCM which you DAC can handle. In which case, sorted, panic over.
Or pick up a basic Dolby Digital decoder. Something like the old Cambridge Audio V500 would do the trick (but they don't pop often).
I have a Cambridge DAC Magic (new type) and I just tried it out of my Sky box - and SD channels work fine, but HD channels result in silence.
It locks at a 48kHz sampling rate for all channels - just silence on the HD ones as suggested above.
ETA (again!) I went in to the Sky box settings, sound settings, changed "Digital Audio Output - Optical" to "Normal" and can now get sound on HD channels too - so OP - that's your solution.
ETA: One of these.
It locks at a 48kHz sampling rate for all channels - just silence on the HD ones as suggested above.
ETA (again!) I went in to the Sky box settings, sound settings, changed "Digital Audio Output - Optical" to "Normal" and can now get sound on HD channels too - so OP - that's your solution.
ETA: One of these.
Edited by TonyRPH on Wednesday 8th January 14:37
Edited by TonyRPH on Wednesday 8th January 14:42
Yep, exactly as I suspected. These DAC's can only decode an nice uncompressed stereo LPCM stream, at some such sample/bit rate specified in their specs.
However the SPDIF connection just doesn't have the bandwidth to transport 6+ channels uncompressed, hence the stream is compressed as Dolby Digital (or DTS can be used). To decode this you'll be needing a little AV amp or processor.
HD channels in the UK are broadcast in Dolby Digital (after a quick Google, it seems even stereo programmes are broadcast in 2 channel Dolby Digital, rather than LPCM!).
As you've found, you can tinker in your telly to get the telly to decode, then down mix the channels and spit it out as LPCM over the optical lead. This is obviously the easiest workaround. Otherwise if your telly doesn't have this option, check if your Sky/Virgin/FreeSat box can do the down mix, before it sends it to the telly.
However the SPDIF connection just doesn't have the bandwidth to transport 6+ channels uncompressed, hence the stream is compressed as Dolby Digital (or DTS can be used). To decode this you'll be needing a little AV amp or processor.
HD channels in the UK are broadcast in Dolby Digital (after a quick Google, it seems even stereo programmes are broadcast in 2 channel Dolby Digital, rather than LPCM!).
As you've found, you can tinker in your telly to get the telly to decode, then down mix the channels and spit it out as LPCM over the optical lead. This is obviously the easiest workaround. Otherwise if your telly doesn't have this option, check if your Sky/Virgin/FreeSat box can do the down mix, before it sends it to the telly.
Right, pretty much didn't understand a word of that... However, will check the settings on the TV to see if the optical output can be 'adjusted'. The whole point is to avoid taking the audio from the Sky box as their is a delay (on the image, not he sound)! Nothing's ever simple, is it?
Well it arrived and sure enough it comes with a note to set the TV to PCM or it won't work. Happily, the TV has a PCM setting, so it works perfectly. Whether or not it is better than the output from the Sky box is debatable. I think it is in some areas, not in others. However, this was based on a very rudimentary test with it coupled to a Bose Wave Radio, which was the only thing portable enough to use in the current scheme of things... It didn't help that the Sky box output is 'louder' (I'm sure there's a technical term), so swapping between the two meant adjusting the volume making back-to-back very difficult. Essentially, it does the job and should be passable until someone points me in the direction of a better unit that can power itself on via the TV or by sensing a signal and costs less then £150 or so!
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