Clarckson responsable for starting a war
Discussion
This forum was not to happy about Jeremys comments on the new Vette, it all got a bit silly...
www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329&page=1&pp=20
www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329&page=1&pp=20
YUp same thing happened on vettenet, in the end I posted this to try and add some reason to the debate...
"In danger of offending people here, but here I go...
I did follow the thread but found some of it offensive and decided not to get embroiled. Had some of the posters read the UK Daily Telegraph they would have seen an extremely positive review of the C6 and perhaps realised that one man's views, Jeremy Clarkson (an avowed Corvetee hater,) does not represent a nation.
There are many American car clubs here, non Corvette, with people who have painstakingly restored an amazing variety of cars from all years to concourse condition, with of course much less support than one would find in America.
In most parts it is a pointless excercise to compare the American sportscar with the European variety. The markets are different and the cars have evolved accordingly over the years. EG European view; a sportscar, as against a Grand Tourer, has a manual gearbox, so how come this is an expensive option on a Vette. I guess you could argue that over the past 20 years there has though been a noticable convergence.
The C5 is a hidden gem, undiscovered by the UK public. That is not the fault of the Brits, it is the fault of GM. How can they expect to sell an expensive car in the UK which is LHD and has no dealer or warranty support.
For several years they did have a presence which is why I bought the C5. But
2 months after it arrived in the UK GM pulled out. So I have a newish expensive exotic car from foreign lands with no support. As a daily driver when the C5 gets replaced, it guess it won't be a C6. Unfortunately my loss as well as GM's
Yes I watched the TG review avidly, first time I have seen a C6 "in the flesh".
The prime point to me is that as with everything you have to put comparisons into perspective.
Would I buy a TVR, no they break down. A BMW?, not on the quality experience of the saloon I have. A Lotus?, well the Elise is too basic and the Esprit too expensive. A Mercedes? UK dealers too arrogant. A Boxster; don't want a convertible. And then you get into stuff which is considerably more expensive than a Corvette, which is why the C5 is a hidden gem. This is the point which I think a lot of the posters missed. TG does not take this into account. It just compares car with car irrespective of price. I am not condoning that, but that is the way it is and the viewer has to use some intelligence and make a personal judgement.
Top Gear used to be a great auto show, hosted by a mix of people; a racing driver, rally driver, journalist etc with individual and not always similar views. These days it is a platform for Jermy Clarkson who, whilst I love to watch for his humorous and particularly non politically correct approach and views on the World - oh for more people like this! - he is an avowed Corvette and American cars in general, hater. Great video of his a few years back where he blew up a C4 with an air to surface missile fired from a helicopter.
So I expected the review to be "bad" and indeed found it far more positive than expected.
It started by commentiing that the Vette was America's 911. Sitting here in the UK I find that a great complement. The pricing is seriously different and I would expect the 911 to be a substantially better car from that perspective.
They complemented its cornering ability. Brits have always criticised American cars for ride quality and cornering ability (different markets as I commented earlier). Interestingly they criticised the ride quality but I suspect many would see this as a positive, being good feedback all round to the driver.
They criticised the quality of the interior. I can only say that I find the
C5 cabin to be aesthetically and functionally excellent and one of the best (perhaps the best) cabins I have driven in.
To me the key aspect was the track test. The program takes all featured high performance cars around a lap of the same track. To correct some of the comments made in the other posts, the driver is an experienced race driver, "the Stig". Only the Stig drives the cars.
The Vette posted a very credible time, placing it in 11th place. All cars ahead of it are significantly more expensive. It bested the Porsche 911 GT3 and interestingly fell short of the Ford GT by a considerable margin. This is the URL for the lap times to date if you are interested.
www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
What was noticable was that whilst producing a very credible lap, it was a bit untidy, probably on the side of understeer ( I would really have to watch the review again) which of course Clarkson picked up on to ram home the generic handling deficiences of Corvettes (his view guys not mine!). But it really was not the best looking lap I have seen on the program I have to say.
Of course what nobody mentioned is that this is the Corvette base model, no mention of a Z06 - I would really like to see that on the program when it arrives!
And of course knowing Cadillac Europe who probably supplied the vehicle, one wonders how well this particular car was sorted - maybe it had runflats, maybe it didn't.
And as the Telegraph said...
"a thunderous exhaust note that makes the Ford GT tested last week sound like a Scalextric car"
"Perhaps most noticeable of all is the feedback offered by the chassis; it was possible to sense the road surface through the front and the rear wheels, a degree of communication that is sadly lacking in the Ford GT."
"In danger of offending people here, but here I go...
I did follow the thread but found some of it offensive and decided not to get embroiled. Had some of the posters read the UK Daily Telegraph they would have seen an extremely positive review of the C6 and perhaps realised that one man's views, Jeremy Clarkson (an avowed Corvetee hater,) does not represent a nation.
There are many American car clubs here, non Corvette, with people who have painstakingly restored an amazing variety of cars from all years to concourse condition, with of course much less support than one would find in America.
In most parts it is a pointless excercise to compare the American sportscar with the European variety. The markets are different and the cars have evolved accordingly over the years. EG European view; a sportscar, as against a Grand Tourer, has a manual gearbox, so how come this is an expensive option on a Vette. I guess you could argue that over the past 20 years there has though been a noticable convergence.
The C5 is a hidden gem, undiscovered by the UK public. That is not the fault of the Brits, it is the fault of GM. How can they expect to sell an expensive car in the UK which is LHD and has no dealer or warranty support.
For several years they did have a presence which is why I bought the C5. But
2 months after it arrived in the UK GM pulled out. So I have a newish expensive exotic car from foreign lands with no support. As a daily driver when the C5 gets replaced, it guess it won't be a C6. Unfortunately my loss as well as GM's
Yes I watched the TG review avidly, first time I have seen a C6 "in the flesh".
The prime point to me is that as with everything you have to put comparisons into perspective.
Would I buy a TVR, no they break down. A BMW?, not on the quality experience of the saloon I have. A Lotus?, well the Elise is too basic and the Esprit too expensive. A Mercedes? UK dealers too arrogant. A Boxster; don't want a convertible. And then you get into stuff which is considerably more expensive than a Corvette, which is why the C5 is a hidden gem. This is the point which I think a lot of the posters missed. TG does not take this into account. It just compares car with car irrespective of price. I am not condoning that, but that is the way it is and the viewer has to use some intelligence and make a personal judgement.
Top Gear used to be a great auto show, hosted by a mix of people; a racing driver, rally driver, journalist etc with individual and not always similar views. These days it is a platform for Jermy Clarkson who, whilst I love to watch for his humorous and particularly non politically correct approach and views on the World - oh for more people like this! - he is an avowed Corvette and American cars in general, hater. Great video of his a few years back where he blew up a C4 with an air to surface missile fired from a helicopter.
So I expected the review to be "bad" and indeed found it far more positive than expected.
It started by commentiing that the Vette was America's 911. Sitting here in the UK I find that a great complement. The pricing is seriously different and I would expect the 911 to be a substantially better car from that perspective.
They complemented its cornering ability. Brits have always criticised American cars for ride quality and cornering ability (different markets as I commented earlier). Interestingly they criticised the ride quality but I suspect many would see this as a positive, being good feedback all round to the driver.
They criticised the quality of the interior. I can only say that I find the
C5 cabin to be aesthetically and functionally excellent and one of the best (perhaps the best) cabins I have driven in.
To me the key aspect was the track test. The program takes all featured high performance cars around a lap of the same track. To correct some of the comments made in the other posts, the driver is an experienced race driver, "the Stig". Only the Stig drives the cars.
The Vette posted a very credible time, placing it in 11th place. All cars ahead of it are significantly more expensive. It bested the Porsche 911 GT3 and interestingly fell short of the Ford GT by a considerable margin. This is the URL for the lap times to date if you are interested.
www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
What was noticable was that whilst producing a very credible lap, it was a bit untidy, probably on the side of understeer ( I would really have to watch the review again) which of course Clarkson picked up on to ram home the generic handling deficiences of Corvettes (his view guys not mine!). But it really was not the best looking lap I have seen on the program I have to say.
Of course what nobody mentioned is that this is the Corvette base model, no mention of a Z06 - I would really like to see that on the program when it arrives!
And of course knowing Cadillac Europe who probably supplied the vehicle, one wonders how well this particular car was sorted - maybe it had runflats, maybe it didn't.
And as the Telegraph said...
"a thunderous exhaust note that makes the Ford GT tested last week sound like a Scalextric car"
"Perhaps most noticeable of all is the feedback offered by the chassis; it was possible to sense the road surface through the front and the rear wheels, a degree of communication that is sadly lacking in the Ford GT."
It's strange but we all try to make the study and choice of all things automotive an exacting science, analysing each and every facet of a car's construction, reliability, performance, handling and price and then trying to sellotape it together into a cohesive judgement and a meaningful comparison.
In real life, we often see a car and simply want one on a gut level, being the best, fastest and most credible choice and where there is no competition. Here, the Americans excel as they start with a thumping great V8 that will offer an aural treat way beyond anything most other manufacturers can dream of...not to mention the vibratory rumble that gives you a daily massage on the way to work and it's all so bloody effortless. This is what I want in a car. I don't want to thrash it, work it, balance it, cajole it and screw it in every gear. I just like the driving experience. Nothing comes close and I've had about 40 cars before getting into American V8's. It will cruise at 130 and still return a reasonable fuel consumption. It will garner the same sort of attention as far more expensive cars and it's rarer in the UK.
When I sold my '85 Vette, I experienced an emotional wrench that I don't get with other cars when I'm ready to change. As has been said, this may apply equally to TVR's or other marques but I'm not prepared to pay through the nose for weaknesses that are inexcusable.
My Z06 is faster than a Countach. Would I have a Countach - you're damned right I would but I know it would break me financially but it appeals on an "instant" interpersonal level.
Truth is that in reality, we buy cars because they suit our needs and character, not because of their ultimate abilities.
In real life, we often see a car and simply want one on a gut level, being the best, fastest and most credible choice and where there is no competition. Here, the Americans excel as they start with a thumping great V8 that will offer an aural treat way beyond anything most other manufacturers can dream of...not to mention the vibratory rumble that gives you a daily massage on the way to work and it's all so bloody effortless. This is what I want in a car. I don't want to thrash it, work it, balance it, cajole it and screw it in every gear. I just like the driving experience. Nothing comes close and I've had about 40 cars before getting into American V8's. It will cruise at 130 and still return a reasonable fuel consumption. It will garner the same sort of attention as far more expensive cars and it's rarer in the UK.
When I sold my '85 Vette, I experienced an emotional wrench that I don't get with other cars when I'm ready to change. As has been said, this may apply equally to TVR's or other marques but I'm not prepared to pay through the nose for weaknesses that are inexcusable.
My Z06 is faster than a Countach. Would I have a Countach - you're damned right I would but I know it would break me financially but it appeals on an "instant" interpersonal level.
Truth is that in reality, we buy cars because they suit our needs and character, not because of their ultimate abilities.
I liked the way some of the Americans on that thread attributed the NSX to the UK...clearly, the people making these comments were pig-ignorant of the motor industry as a whole (and hence probably "foreign" cars in general), and as a result their opinions are probably even less valid than Clarkson's!
NSX British??? oh, how I wish the UK motor industry was good enough at engineering for that to be realistic!!!
But PMSL at the venom in those posts - they really didn't like it, did they? And the patriotism...ROTFLMAO - if you're buying cars out of patriotism, you really don't count as a petrolhead, regardless of how many "cubes" you've got.
NSX British??? oh, how I wish the UK motor industry was good enough at engineering for that to be realistic!!!
But PMSL at the venom in those posts - they really didn't like it, did they? And the patriotism...ROTFLMAO - if you're buying cars out of patriotism, you really don't count as a petrolhead, regardless of how many "cubes" you've got.
ws6 said:
Gave up at about page 4 Talk about antagonise the few UK supporters they have. Truly shocked and I own 4 of their damned cars !
Same here - I love America and their way of life not to mention their cars. However I was very disappointed with some of their comments which were offensive and antagonistic in the extreme. It's only a car and one person's opinion which, as I have said before, is solely for the benefit of the viewing figures. Ridiculous.............
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