Friday 10th January 2014

Ringside Seat: 2014 brings the chill

Public days confirmed, full track day calendar ... so why is Dale feeling nervous about the year ahead?

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Is 2014 the last year at the Nurburgring as we know it? It’s a valid question and not sensationalist at all. I’ll be honest, I don’t know the answer. Nobody does.

Public access to survive private buy out?

First the good news; yesterday the first six months of public opening times were released by the circuit operators. So alongside the already-released 2014 ticket prices and racing schedules, we can all begin to plan our pilgrimages to the last pay-per-lap public racetrack in the world.

The management have, in my opinion, been really quick and diligent to organise, finalise and advertise the many races, events and trackdays that will take place in 2014. Certainly the Nurburgring track day calendar has never before looked so healthy, so early.

So why the negative vibes? I can’t quite shake it. It’s this damned public-to-private sale that’s still looming over our heads. According to the original schedule, we should be very close to finding out which company, individual, or investment group has finally bought the bankrupt Nurburgring off the government. Naturally whoever buys the Nurburgring will be forced to honour the prices, packages and contracts negotiated with the government this year. Things like MTV Rock Am Ring, all the public days and the 24-hour race are set in stone. They’re crucial to the economic survival of the region.

Don't delay that planned 'ring pilgrimage

But after this year they’re simply not protected. Despite lots of positive noises about covenants and contracts, the reality is that the whole sale process is still behind closed doors. So what if the ‘ring is bought by a private firm? I doubt the ‘arrive and drive’ public sessions will survive intact, to be honest. One big multiple accident with a couple of fatalities will be more than any right-minded insurance could possibly cover.

It’s all about the ‘N’ word. Negligence. I don’t know how or why, and I’d love for somebody to tell me, but I suspect that when the track is state-owned these risks are undertaken by either the State or the Federal Republic of Germany. But would it still be the same for a private firm? I think they’d need to be negotiating insurance policies on a circuit where death isn’t just a risk, it’s a fact. Several times a year.

That’s not to say it would be impossible to run public access sessions on the old 20.8km northloop. They’d probably just need indemnities, safety briefings and they’d probably cost more. So what I’m really saying is that 2014 could be your last opportunity to take your car out on a racetrack populated by tour buses, bikes and GT3s, with questionable insurance cover and no compulsory safety briefing. The Nurburgring as we know it will change. Good thing or bad thing? Discuss…

[JuanEl]

The words *Waiver and *Disclaimer spring to mind

I can't see TF days being scrapped any time soon. As mentioned in the article the whole region relies on TF days for economic stability, so no doubt the 'ring will be sold with a covenant that secures the future of public sessions

[Mermaid]

JuanEl said:

The words *Waiver and *Disclaimer spring to mind

Do the Americans have such a 'Tourist" driving facility?

[NIgt3]

Hopefully their not done away with and it would be eally annoying have to go through the same stupid briefing everytime you want to do a tourist lap, as dale says it would also put the price up and it already nearing its limit in my opinion!! One plus might be alot more trackdays which alot of people prefer to do anyway including me!!

[BBS-LM]

Could the Public days still be insured by the State or the Federal Republic of Germany in the new contract just for them track days?

[NIgt3]

BBS-LM said:

Could the Public days still be insured by the State or the Federal Republic of Germany in the new contract just for them track days?

Could be done (maybe) but no chance of happening the government want rid completely!!

[JuanEl]

Mermaid said:

JuanEl said:

The words *Waiver and *Disclaimer spring to mind

Do the Americans have such a 'Tourist" driving facility?

Yes, I believe in America they are called "race tracks"

I understand they also have these other tourist facilities known as "roads" although I doubt you would have to sign a waiver to use the latter

Shocking I know

Edited by JuanEl on Friday 10th January 11:36

[MichelV]

If they keep the Ringroad as public i can hardly see the issue.

In France the "Autoroutes" are privately run, but the roads are public and the same rules apply as to the autosroutes that are not outsourced....

Michel

[pthelazyjourno]

JuanEl said:

Yes, I believe in America they are called "race tracks"

I understand they also have these other tourist facilities known as "roads" although I doubt you would have to sign a waiver to use the latter

Shocking I know

Edited by JuanEl on Friday 10th January 11:36

Woah there, are you American? Using sarcasm and stuff?! The mind boggles.

[JuanEl]

pthelazyjourno said:

Woah there, are you American? Using sarcasm and stuff?! The mind boggles.

Thankfully not - I'm of the BRG TVR persuasion and drink tea, not canned soda

[RacerMike]

I understand the sentiment of the article, but I'm not sure I agree that being owned by a company would make public days untenable. Last time I checked, all the circuits in the UK were still happy to operate track days, and none of them are state owned. MSV owns a good number and is a genuine money making firm (i.e. not a club) and they're still going after many years of operation.

And as for more high level manufacturer involvement....don't Mazda own, or at least heavily sponsor Laguna Seca?

IMO, I can't see the tourist sessions stopping. Why on earth would you not want the huge income it brings?!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

MichelV said:

[b]If they keep the Ringroad as public i can hardly see the issue.

In France the "Autoroutes" are privately run, but the roads are public and the same rules apply as to the autosroutes that are not outsourced....
[/b]
Michel

this^^^^^^^^^^^^

there are hundreds of roads across europe that are privately owned & run but the owners are not held responsible for the actions of the drivers who use them! why should the ring be any different?

dale, i understand you live there but every article invariably only dwells on the negative-cheer up man!

[NIgt3]

RacerMike said:

I understand the sentiment of the article, but I'm not sure I agree that being owned by a company would make public days untenable. Last time I checked, all the circuits in the UK were still happy to operate track days, and none of them are state owned. MSV owns a good number and is a genuine money making firm (i.e. not a club) and they're still going after many years of operation.

And as for more high level manufacturer involvement....don't Mazda own, or at least heavily sponsor Laguna Seca?

IMO, I can't see the tourist sessions stopping. Why on earth would you not want the huge income it brings?!

The circuits in the uk that run trackdays is different than tourist laps of the ring, they'll always be trackdays at the ring but tourist laps are different!!

[Bionic Billy Nav]

NIgt3 said:

RacerMike said:

I understand the sentiment of the article, but I'm not sure I agree that being owned by a company would make public days untenable. Last time I checked, all the circuits in the UK were still happy to operate track days, and none of them are state owned. MSV owns a good number and is a genuine money making firm (i.e. not a club) and they're still going after many years of operation.

And as for more high level manufacturer involvement....don't Mazda own, or at least heavily sponsor Laguna Seca?

IMO, I can't see the tourist sessions stopping. Why on earth would you not want the huge income it brings?!

The circuits in the uk that run trackdays is different than tourist laps of the ring, they'll always be trackdays at the ring but tourist laps are different!!

You say they are different how exactly? I know a few of the circuits in Britain run pay per session track days just like Hockenheim and the Nurburgring Grand Prix Strecke and not all of them insist of driver briefing I know because I've done them. I think Dale is worrying unnecessarily because whoever takes over is surely wanting to make money from their investment and Touristfahrten is a fantastic earner...

[nickfrog]

TF days are different from track days as you don't have to sign a disclaimer and German public road liabilities and rules apply.

I don't think you can take part in any UK track day, even a taster session, without signing a disclaimer.

[Guillaume]

MichelV said:

If they keep the Ringroad as public i can hardly see the issue.

In France the "Autoroutes" are privately run, but the roads are public and the same rules apply as to the autosroutes that are not outsourced....

Michel

Came here to say that. There is a way to maintaint the TF and its current legal status even when the N'Ring will be privately owned.

[Bionic Billy Nav]

nickfrog said:

TF days are different from track days as you don't have to sign a disclaimer and German public road liabilities and rules apply.

I don't think you can take part in any UK track day, even a taster session, without signing a disclaimer.

You do sign a disclaimer on a track day you are obviously correct however when you purchase a Ring card you are agreeing to all the terms and conditions as laid out in their "Driving Regulations" which is available fir you to read, download etc basically they too except no liability whether you have signed a piece of paper or not..

[shibby!]

Hi

I am one of the neverbeens, and all going well should go this year, I'm a super last minute kind of person.

For me to get on the track do I have to wait for an official track day? Or can I just turn up any dat there is not a race on and go mental. I thought being a public road you could do this?

I suppose the next question is, what's the difference between official track days and just blasting round it when it's a public road?

[matsoc]

I tend to agree with the article, I have some fears about the future of the Ring as we know it. I have been and I drove on the Nordschleife many times and it is different to any other track I experienced in Italy, France or UK. It is really more dangerous, due to traffic mix, surface, speeds, length. It may look something barely sustainable in safety terms when privately run.
I am not saying that driving on the Ring won't be possible in the future, but it could be more restricted and expensive.

[Sevenman]

shibby! said:

For me to get on the track do I have to wait for an official track day? Or can I just turn up any dat there is not a race on and go mental. I thought being a public road you could do this?

I suppose the next question is, what's the difference between official track days and just blasting round it when it's a public road?

That's a bit off topic for this thread, but there is plenty of information out there that will answer all your questions given a bit of searching.

Try this from Nubrugring.org as a start

I hope the mental bit is in jest given the dangerous nature of the track - Maybe have a look at the Northloop Safety flyer

[CBR JGWRR]

shibby! said:

Hi

I am one of the neverbeens, and all going well should go this year, I'm a super last minute kind of person.

For me to get on the track do I have to wait for an official track day? Or can I just turn up any dat there is not a race on and go mental. I thought being a public road you could do this?

I suppose the next question is, what's the difference between official track days and just blasting round it when it's a public road?

FFS, don't just "go mental".

The place is one of the most dangerous race courses in the world - if you must be a tt, then treat it as a mostly blind one way B-road with no speed limit (a few places excepted) with no insurance cover, as your normal insurer sure as hell wont cover you if you park your car in the Armco.

On a TF day you can have anything turn up, from tour buses, vans, sports cars, sports bikes, nutters aiming for bridge to gantry lap records and anything in between - Keep right unless overtaking at all times, because if you aren't and the police see you, you are royally fked. Things can, and will, appear from nowhere and pass you like you are standing still - 80+ mph speed differentials are normal.

On a track day, same sort of thing only with less variety of vehicles and briefings.


Don't bother trying to learn the place on a videogame before hand, at most you'll learn which bends are left and which ones are right.